A good example from a Greek publisher

omk3 · 11-12-2010, 05:36 PM

Greece was perhaps a little late to enter the ebook market, but at least one publishing house seems to follow the right approach.

Kastaniotis, one of the major and well-respected quality Greek publishers has started offering their new releases as ebooks concurrently or earlier than their paper counterparts, in a better price (ranging from €5,90 to €9,90), and more importantly, without the usual frustrating DRM. Instead they use a form of social DRM where in every book you buy is inserted a "bookplate" with the buyer's name. Not only does this not restrict the use in any way, but unlike what I've seen almost everywhere else in the ebook market, it makes it clear, in a tasteful, discreet way, that the book belongs to you.

When I increasingly feel I'm treated as a money-making machine and potential thief at the same time from most publishers, who by the way seem to try to fight ebooks rather than promote them, I am overjoyed that there are still publishers who want to treat the reading public with the respect they deserve. I hope more publishers choose to follow this example.

Bikeridr · 11-12-2010, 06:15 PM

Nice

I would support a publisher like that.

SlowRain · 11-12-2010, 08:59 PM

Sounds like a very fair and reasonable idea they have. No wonder it hasn't caught on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by omk3

... treated as a money-making machine and potential thief at the same time from most publishers, who by the way seem to try to fight ebooks rather than promote them...

That sums it up nicely.

Seanette · 11-12-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omk3

Greece was perhaps a little late to enter the ebook market, but at least one publishing house seems to follow the right approach.

Kastaniotis, one of the major and well-respected quality Greek publishers has started offering their new releases as ebooks concurrently or earlier than their paper counterparts, in a better price (ranging from €5,90 to €9,90), and more importantly, without the usual frustrating DRM. Instead they use a form of social DRM where in every book you buy is inserted a "bookplate" with the buyer's name. Not only does this not restrict the use in any way, but unlike what I've seen almost everywhere else in the ebook market, it makes it clear, in a tasteful, discreet way, that the book belongs to you.

When I increasingly feel I'm treated as a money-making machine and potential thief at the same time from most publishers, who by the way seem to try to fight ebooks rather than promote them, I am overjoyed that there are still publishers who want to treat the reading public with the respect they deserve. I hope more publishers choose to follow this example.

If I read Greek, I'd probably shift book business their way myself.

eAnagnostis · 11-19-2010, 11:32 AM

There is now a debate among Greek publishers over Adobe DRM vs social DRM (also reaching major newspapers). Kastaniotis has decisively begun to publish e-books with social DRM and at least one other major publisher is preparing to do the same. That's good also because you easily convert your ebooks for your Kindle. (To my knowledge though, the ebooks are released the same day as the p-books, which is OK by me)

Ravensknight · 11-19-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omk3

Not only does this not restrict the use in any way, but unlike what I've seen almost everywhere else in the ebook market, it makes it clear, in a tasteful, discreet way, that the book belongs to you.

I like this idea, very much!

alecE · 11-19-2010, 04:28 PM

Well good for them!
Now, will it take less time for me to become fluent in Greek than it will take for Anglophone publishers to adopt this business model? (Hint: I'm not very good at languages).

myral · 11-20-2010, 06:29 AM

Thanks for the heads-up. I already "rewarded" them by buying Eugenia Fakinou's new book... The scarcity of Greek e-books available (and possible to read on Kindle as opposed to on the screen of the computer), is one of the main reasons why I no longer read greek literature.

eAnagnostis · 11-20-2010, 06:39 AM

The scarcity of Greek e-books is beginning to be dealt with - in the past weeks there is a constant flow of ebooks in ePUB. There are 287 to date, not a lot, but this is something. (There are a few hundreds more in PDF, but I wouldn't count them as 100% ebooks)

neilmarr · 11-20-2010, 10:28 AM

My own small indie (usually with a current catalogue of around 150 exclusive new titles to which we hold international rights, refuse DRM and Agency 5) has always worked this way. But the third-party retail stores still get their pound of flesh -- sometimes kilos of it.

Folks here are too eager to blame the publisher and know little about the claims online ebook stores make on us.

Did you know that Amazon takes 65% on all Kindle ebook sales outside the US and UK, that Sony take 60% across the board ... meaning they make more than the author, editor, designer, artist, editor and publishing house combined, for doing nothing more than providing a virtual shop window to promote their hardware!?

This Greek house is admirable. But it's only one of many, many unsung heroes in this industry that try to play the game by the gentlemanly rules of cricket, and against all odds. How long such indies can hold out is anyone's grim guess.

Best Wishes. Neil

MasterCom7 · 11-20-2010, 11:29 AM

There is a greek saying that goes like this : "John is afraid of the beast, and the beast is afraid of him too". Which is exactly, as I see it, what's happening in the book market.

The old model publishers know that the market change is inevitable but are too afraid to act accordingly and it only takes a brave and openminded, usually younger publisher (which is the case here) to make the daring first move to embrace the new market that hasn't been formed yet (in Greece anyway) but will slowly emerge in the following years.

This is a decision worthy of applause

. I hope other publishers follow along this path.

Andrew H. · 11-20-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Did you know that Amazon takes 65% on all Kindle ebook sales outside the US and UK, that Sony take 60% across the board ... meaning they make more than the author, editor, designer, artist, editor and publishing house combined, for doing nothing more than providing a virtual shop window to promote their hardware!?

Best Wishes. Neil

In most economic transactions, the person who connects the purchaser with the producer performs the most valuable service. If Amazon or Sony are too expensive, *don't use them* and sell the books yourself.

neilmarr · 11-21-2010, 06:05 AM

After forty-odd years in the business, Andrew, I'm more than hardened to penal discounts (sales commissions) demanded in brick-and-mortar stores. My point is simply that online retailers often charge more and offer less. Of course, all publishers need retail (just as retail needs publishers), but there's a difference between playing fair and being greedy, and too often publishers catch the flak for store-imposed inconveniences. Cheers. Neil

eAnagnostis · 11-21-2010, 07:11 AM

Kastaniotis is not, of course, the sole not the first publisher in the world who does not use Adobe DRM, but this is particularly important because until now it was beyond doubt that e-books in Greek, though they are in their very early days, will have DRM. So this might set the rules of the game for e-books in Greek in way favorable not just for publishers but also for readers/consumers.

As to Sony and Amazon (and other), they charge publishers disproportionately - no doubt. There are taking advantage of their dominant, well-established position in the market.

omk3 · 11-22-2010, 07:12 AM

Hey, we got more Greeks here than I thought

Good to see the Greek ebook market developing!

I'd really really love to see more publishers take this route. I've been watching myebooks.gr with interest, but haven't bought anything yet. Most books are in pdf format, and drm'ed, none of which I'm particularly willing to put up with.

In other news, it seems Kastaniotis has now gone one step further, and is experimenting with the "set your own price" feature (for the new book of Mimis Androulakis).

11-12-2010, 05:36 PM	#1
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	A good example from a Greek publisher Greece was perhaps a little late to enter the ebook market, but at least one publishing house seems to follow the right approach. Kastaniotis, one of the major and well-respected quality Greek publishers has started offering their new releases as ebooks concurrently or earlier than their paper counterparts, in a better price (ranging from €5,90 to €9,90), and more importantly, without the usual frustrating DRM. Instead they use a form of social DRM where in every book you buy is inserted a "bookplate" with the buyer's name. Not only does this not restrict the use in any way, but unlike what I've seen almost everywhere else in the ebook market, it makes it clear, in a tasteful, discreet way, that the book belongs to you. When I increasingly feel I'm treated as a money-making machine and potential thief at the same time from most publishers, who by the way seem to try to fight ebooks rather than promote them, I am overjoyed that there are still publishers who want to treat the reading public with the respect they deserve. I hope more publishers choose to follow this example.

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11-12-2010, 06:15 PM	#2
Bikeridr Information Acquirer Posts: 436 Karma: 4265156 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Latvia, Rigas Rajons Device: Kindle 3 International, Pocketbook Color	Nice I would support a publisher like that.

11-19-2010, 11:32 AM	#5
eAnagnostis Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Greece Device: Kindle 3 WiFi	There is now a debate among Greek publishers over Adobe DRM vs social DRM (also reaching major newspapers). Kastaniotis has decisively begun to publish e-books with social DRM and at least one other major publisher is preparing to do the same. That's good also because you easily convert your ebooks for your Kindle. (To my knowledge though, the ebooks are released the same day as the p-books, which is OK by me)

11-19-2010, 04:28 PM	#7
alecE Evangelist Posts: 412 Karma: 546196 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK canal boat Device: sony prs505, prs650, kobo Glo HD liseuses	Well good for them! Now, will it take less time for me to become fluent in Greek than it will take for Anglophone publishers to adopt this business model? (Hint: I'm not very good at languages).

11-20-2010, 06:29 AM	#8
myral Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Europe Device: Kindle 3, PocketBook 360, Kindle 2, CyBook gen 3	Thanks for the heads-up. I already "rewarded" them by buying Eugenia Fakinou's new book... The scarcity of Greek e-books available (and possible to read on Kindle as opposed to on the screen of the computer), is one of the main reasons why I no longer read greek literature.

11-20-2010, 06:39 AM	#9
eAnagnostis Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Greece Device: Kindle 3 WiFi	The scarcity of Greek e-books is beginning to be dealt with - in the past weeks there is a constant flow of ebooks in ePUB. There are 287 to date, not a lot, but this is something. (There are a few hundreds more in PDF, but I wouldn't count them as 100% ebooks)

11-20-2010, 10:28 AM	#10
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	My own small indie (usually with a current catalogue of around 150 exclusive new titles to which we hold international rights, refuse DRM and Agency 5) has always worked this way. But the third-party retail stores still get their pound of flesh -- sometimes kilos of it. Folks here are too eager to blame the publisher and know little about the claims online ebook stores make on us. Did you know that Amazon takes 65% on all Kindle ebook sales outside the US and UK, that Sony take 60% across the board ... meaning they make more than the author, editor, designer, artist, editor and publishing house combined, for doing nothing more than providing a virtual shop window to promote their hardware!? This Greek house is admirable. But it's only one of many, many unsung heroes in this industry that try to play the game by the gentlemanly rules of cricket, and against all odds. How long such indies can hold out is anyone's grim guess. Best Wishes. Neil

11-20-2010, 11:29 AM	#11
MasterCom7 Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Athens, Greece Device: Waiting for big screen reader	There is a greek saying that goes like this : "John is afraid of the beast, and the beast is afraid of him too". Which is exactly, as I see it, what's happening in the book market. The old model publishers know that the market change is inevitable but are too afraid to act accordingly and it only takes a brave and openminded, usually younger publisher (which is the case here) to make the daring first move to embrace the new market that hasn't been formed yet (in Greece anyway) but will slowly emerge in the following years. This is a decision worthy of applause . I hope other publishers follow along this path.

11-21-2010, 06:05 AM	#13
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,215 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	After forty-odd years in the business, Andrew, I'm more than hardened to penal discounts (sales commissions) demanded in brick-and-mortar stores. My point is simply that online retailers often charge more and offer less. Of course, all publishers need retail (just as retail needs publishers), but there's a difference between playing fair and being greedy, and too often publishers catch the flak for store-imposed inconveniences. Cheers. Neil

11-21-2010, 07:11 AM	#14
eAnagnostis Enthusiast Posts: 25 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Greece Device: Kindle 3 WiFi	Kastaniotis is not, of course, the sole not the first publisher in the world who does not use Adobe DRM, but this is particularly important because until now it was beyond doubt that e-books in Greek, though they are in their very early days, will have DRM. So this might set the rules of the game for e-books in Greek in way favorable not just for publishers but also for readers/consumers. As to Sony and Amazon (and other), they charge publishers disproportionately - no doubt. There are taking advantage of their dominant, well-established position in the market.

11-22-2010, 07:12 AM	#15
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	Hey, we got more Greeks here than I thought Good to see the Greek ebook market developing! I'd really really love to see more publishers take this route. I've been watching myebooks.gr with interest, but haven't bought anything yet. Most books are in pdf format, and drm'ed, none of which I'm particularly willing to put up with. In other news, it seems Kastaniotis has now gone one step further, and is experimenting with the "set your own price" feature (for the new book of Mimis Androulakis).

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