If instead of "pirates"...

[DebbyS]

If instead of "pirates" those who rescued older books were called "Robin Hoods", would it make a difference?

The Robin Hoods gather, scan, fix up, convert -- to rtf or epub or whatever -- books that are old and forgotten but not out of copyright. I've scanned and fixed up some old books I recall liking a great deal back in the 1980s. I couldn't find them (can't imagine having tossed them after pdfing them -- poorly -- but I guess I did... ) and had to re-buy them (Abe Books) so I could rescan and turn them into epubs. I'm probably the only one in the history of the rest of the world who will do that for these poor forgotten SciFi/Space Opera books by Ian Wallace... but I'd be called a pirate if i shared them on the net. I'd rather be thought of as a Robin Hood [or Maid Marion if she was the brains behind the outfit ].

Maybe there should be a classification for those of us who'd like to make sure some books, books maybe too silly for Project Gutenberg, are never forgotten.

Just a thought

[Ninjalawyer]

That's a bad idea and you should feel bad for having it! Filthy, unclean pirate!

Just getting that out of the way at the outset so we can avoid it later. what you describe isn't anything new. "Pirates" have been key in preserving long-forgotten works of music, and I just read an article from Kotaku on how "pirates" are the only reason relatively unpopular and forgotten videogames have been preserved at all. One of the downsides of lengthy copyright is that culture can permanently lose creative works.

And since a few will skim the above and declare that:

(i) I think that there should be no copyright;
(ii) I'm unwilling to pay for anything; or
(iii) I want to see creators (and there children if I can manage it) reduced to standing in line at a soup kitchen or warming themselves by a barrel-fire under an overpass,

I do not in fact believe those things.

[apbschmitz]

Speaking as a guy who had a novel published back in the 80s, when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, I would be grateful if anyone who decided to liberate my novels would first make the effort of contacting me. I could then be asked if I intended to reclaim the rights from the original publisher and republish myself. Most living authors probably aren't that hard to find. This seems like a basic courtesy before grabbing somebody else's stuff.

[Dulin's Books]

you're talking about "orphaned" works. suggest reading up on googles pursuit of orphan works for the google books project

[carpetmojo]

Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer

.......I just read an article from Kotaku on how "pirates" are the only reason relatively unpopular and forgotten videogames have been preserved at all....."

" One of the downsides of lengthy copyright is that culture can permanently lose creative works."[/QUOTE]


Some would say there is a slight dichotomy between these two statements.....

[latepaul]

There has been a campaign for decades to try to spread the idea that was rejected in the US constitution. The idea that copyright exists as an entitlement for copyright owners. And you can that expressed in almost everything they say about it starting and ending with the word “pirate” which is used to give the impression that making an unauthorised copy is the moral equivalent of attacking a ship and kidnapping or killing the people on board.

So if you look at the statements being made by publishers you find lots of implicit assumptions of this sort which you have to drag into the open and then start questioning.

(source)

This quote is from Richard Stallman and is talking about software but what he says in that snippet applies to other forms of copyright too. Stallman is a bit extreme in some ways but I think he makes a very good point about hidden assumptions.

[gweeks]

Originally Posted by DebbyS

Maybe there should be a classification for those of us who'd like to make sure some books, books maybe too silly for Project Gutenberg, are never forgotten.

Nothing is too silly for Project Gutenberg. If it was published in the first place and is out of copyright they will take it. Not interesting enough that some one has tried to put in in PG yet is a different matter. Lots of children's series literature is making it in.

Greg Weeks

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by apbschmitz

Speaking as a guy who had a novel published back in the 80s, when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, I would be grateful if anyone who decided to liberate my novels would first make the effort of contacting me. I could then be asked if I intended to reclaim the rights from the original publisher and republish myself. Most living authors probably aren't that hard to find. This seems like a basic courtesy before grabbing somebody else's stuff.

Why would you (or the author in general) need to be asked to do this instead of just doing it?

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

" One of the downsides of lengthy copyright is that culture can permanently lose creative works."

Some would say there is a slight dichotomy between these two statements.....

[/QUOTE]

If so, it's totally over my head.

[carpetmojo]

[QUOTE=Ninjalawyer;......If so, it's totally over my head.[/QUOTE]

Probably because of the black hat ?

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Why would you (or the author in general) need to be asked to do this instead of just doing it?

you are sitting at a table with a full glass of water in front of you. someone else is interested in drinking that water. is it ok for that other person to just take the glass and drink the water or would you prefer they ask you first?

[GMcG]

to Sil_liS: "Why would you (or the author in general) need to be asked to do this instead of just doing it?"
Because you don't know, what the intentions of the author are. He is still the owner of his work.

to apbschmitz: "I could then be asked if I intended to reclaim the rights from the original publisher and republish myself."
I think this is a way of reactivating a book and selling it a second time. When the CD was introduced many decades ago, the music companies started relaunching the back catalogue of analog recorded music as CDs at a reduced price. This could be a model for printend books as well (becoming ebooks for 2,99 $).

So I would say, that pirating orphaned books without agreement of the owner is not OK (well, if he agrees, the book is not pirated).

George

[DebbyS]

I have yet to release anything I've scanned and made into an ebook. Seems the way to do it is pay for space on an FTP-like site and then tell folks, offering a link. I could give digital copies to friends, if I had any who were ereader savvy or liked the same books I do. That's not happening at this time

However, I think it would be cool to try to contact an author about spreading their older work around. "Dear Sir/Madam, Way back in 1969 I really enjoyed ___ that you wrote. I just found an old copy in good shape, and I have scanned and turned it into an rtf file. I did this because no publisher has done it nor seems likely to. I'd like to give digital copies to my friends and others on the internet, if that's okay with you. If you'd like a copy, too, I'd be happy to send one to you...."

This assumes the author is still alive +40 years later (and some of the books I've scanned are in that +40 age range), and that the author is computer literate enough to want the file I made... However, it would be fun to say "This book has been posted with the approval of the author". Hey, the author might even want to take the opportunity to hear from old fans and give permission to post a link to a site or email eddress. It could be an interesting project.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by DebbyS

However, it would be fun to say "This book has been posted with the approval of the author". Hey, the author might even want to take the opportunity to hear from old fans and give permission to post a link to a site or email eddress. It could be an interesting project.

Seems like a potential landmine to me. Right now there are a bunch of authors that aren't even 100% clear on whether or not THEY have the right to approve such a release of their older works. I would need more than the author saying "Sure!", I would want verification that they currently hold the rights.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

you are sitting at a table with a full glass of water in front of you. someone else is interested in drinking that water. is it ok for that other person to just take the glass and drink the water or would you prefer they ask you first?

Originally Posted by GMcG

Because you don't know, what the intentions of the author are. He is still the owner of his work.

I often get the feeling that people here are not actually paying attention to what the posts are saying.

I was asking apbschmitz why he (she?) or any other author with orphaned books doesn't take action to take them back from obscurity. Why do they wait for someone to remind them that technology and communication evolved enough to make it possible for old works to be revived?