Dead tree only - The moral implications, conversion, and desires

Hellmark · 01-30-2012, 12:37 PM

Ok, the past few days, I've been working on scanning and formatting some books that do not have ebook for sale. The books in particular are from the past 10 years, but were novelizations of a TV show so are unlikely to be ever messed with by the publishers.

One thing I was thinking of trying, is seeing if the publisher (Pocket Books) would be interested in having my final product, so that if they want, they could sell them to others. Likelihood of something like that happen though I understand is low, due to redtape.

Have you guys ever run into this sort of situation, and what did you do? Did you just go screw it and read the paper copy, do the conversion like I am, or just end up not reading it? I mean, it is taking me a day or so for me in my free time to get each book formatted after it is scanned. By the time I've finished, I've read the book at that point, so really not a lot of incentive to do it if it was just for me (my girlfriend is wanting to read them after I am done, which is mostly why I am putting in the work).

gweeks · 01-30-2012, 01:57 PM

The publisher probably doesn't have distribution rights any more and can't do anything with it any way. You might have more luck offering to the author, though if it's a media tie in they might not have rights either.

Greg Weeks

sbroome · 01-30-2012, 02:02 PM

Not related to books, but years ago I had all the episodes of two series (Nowhere Man and Bakersfield PD) that I loved on VHS and contacted the companies asking if they'd like to use my tapes for a DVD so that people like me could buy the episodes on DVD. They never responded, because honestly neither show did very well in the first place.

elemenoP · 01-30-2012, 02:16 PM

I really never understood the need to scan pbooks. I would just read the book! What's so bad about picking up a pbook and reading it? I mean, you had to pick the pbook to scan it, anyway.

As far as the publishers wanting your files, if the book was published in the last 10 years, they almost certainly have electronic source files laying around somewhere. The book was not typeset on a Gutenberg-style moveable type press, after all.

eP

QuantumIguana · 01-30-2012, 06:38 PM

If it is a recent book, a digital copy almost certainly exists, but a lot of the paper books in my bookshelf are a lot older than 10 years. I think a lot of people scan books not so much to read them on an e-reader, but to preserve them. There are a lot of older books that are languishing because there are just a few copies sitting around. I like the idea of scanning them and offering them to the copyright holder.

Is there a way to tell if a book is still under copyright? Of course, the really old books are copyright, but there are some books in between where it may or may not still be under copyright, is there any way I can look up the copyright status of a book, to see if it had been renewed? Some books would be public domain today if the book had not been renewed, but still under copyright if it had.

anamardoll · 01-30-2012, 06:41 PM

@Hellmark, I cut and scan all the Deathlands novels and tried to convince Harlequin to re-sell them. They refused -- I think because the series was written by several authors, some of whom are now dead.

Hellmark · 01-31-2012, 12:27 PM

They're mass market paperbacks, they're not meant to last. Several books I have already have pages coming loose. If I scan them, I can keep reading them without totally destroying them (I don't do the the cut and scan method).

And yeah, for recent ones it is probably in some digital form, but that doesn't mean it can easily be made into an ebook.

If it is made 1978 or after, then it is definitely under copyright. If it is 1928 or after, the likelihood of it being not copyrighted is extremely slim.

simplyparticular · 01-31-2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elemenoP

As far as the publishers wanting your files, if the book was published in the last 10 years, they almost certainly have electronic source files laying around somewhere. The book was not typeset on a Gutenberg-style moveable type press, after all.

eP

Not really. 10 years ago is at least 5 generations of software. I worked in publishing in the late 90s, and the Quark XPress and Adobe Pagemaker files from 10 years ago are not readable by current versions of the software. And the writers were sending in their manuscripts on floppies in everything from WordPerfect, Microsoft Works, ClarisWorks and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. We usually (crossed our fingers and hoped it) opened, copied and pasted into Quark to make digital galleys. And that was the last time the source document got touched - most editing happened in layout form.

So yes, the publishers probably have file folders with floppies of MS Works 3 or Quark 4 files, but that isn't going to do them much good now.

That's why OCR has become such a big habit.

QuantumIguana · 01-31-2012, 12:39 PM

I know the date which everything older is public domain. But there is a pretty long stretch of time where things are public domain if the copyright was not renewed. Is there a way to find out of the copyright was renewed?

gweeks · 01-31-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

I know the date which everything older is public domain. But there is a pretty long stretch of time where things are public domain if the copyright was not renewed. Is there a way to find out of the copyright was renewed?

Sort of. It's difficult.

http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_room...ions-p2%20.htm

Greg Weeks

Hellmark · 01-31-2012, 03:36 PM

Wikipedia has a few lists of things in the public domain, but the way the chips are falling, we probably will be seeing a lot of stuff go back under copyright.

Based on Obama signing ACTA, and Supreme court ruling that works in the public domain can be placed under copyright again, pretty much forget anything about the ones where they didn't get renewed.

Ninjalawyer · 01-31-2012, 04:18 PM

It's a little bit funny in a way, but for obscure works (like less popular romance novels and tv show novelizations), it's likely that someone scanning and uploading the books (i.e. pirating) them is the only way they'll avoid being lost forever.

I bring this up only because I recently read an article on this in the context of old computer games. For old, not very popular games, it's often the case that no one even knows who has the rights, so piracy is really the only way the works aren't completely lost to culture.

anamardoll · 01-31-2012, 04:32 PM

Abandonware!

(The computer game industry has actually been pretty relaxed about Abandonware. There are even some REALLY GOOD remakes of old Sierra games out there, designed to run on newer machines.)

QuantumIguana · 01-31-2012, 05:02 PM

Agreed. Many more obscure books will slip through the cracks. If copyright keeps getting extended, they may disappear forever. The copyright owner may not know that they own the copyright, so they can sit in limbo.

mr ploppy · 01-31-2012, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbroome

Not related to books, but years ago I had all the episodes of two series (Nowhere Man and Bakersfield PD) that I loved on VHS and contacted the companies asking if they'd like to use my tapes for a DVD so that people like me could buy the episodes on DVD. They never responded, because honestly neither show did very well in the first place.

Nowhere Man came out on DVD a couple of years ago.

01-30-2012, 12:37 PM	#1
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	Dead tree only - The moral implications, conversion, and desires Ok, the past few days, I've been working on scanning and formatting some books that do not have ebook for sale. The books in particular are from the past 10 years, but were novelizations of a TV show so are unlikely to be ever messed with by the publishers. One thing I was thinking of trying, is seeing if the publisher (Pocket Books) would be interested in having my final product, so that if they want, they could sell them to others. Likelihood of something like that happen though I understand is low, due to redtape. Have you guys ever run into this sort of situation, and what did you do? Did you just go screw it and read the paper copy, do the conversion like I am, or just end up not reading it? I mean, it is taking me a day or so for me in my free time to get each book formatted after it is scanned. By the time I've finished, I've read the book at that point, so really not a lot of incentive to do it if it was just for me (my girlfriend is wanting to read them after I am done, which is mostly why I am putting in the work).

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Your Dead Tree Book Shelves?	covingtoncat73	Lounge	17	05-03-2011 12:52 PM
Already have in dead tree format	HowardBrazee	Reading Recommendations	4	10-31-2010 07:03 AM
Philosophy James, William: The Moral Philosopher and the Moral Life, v.1, 29 November 2008.	Patricia	Kindle Books	0	11-28-2008 11:18 PM
Philosophy James, William: The Moral Philosopher and the Moral Life, v.1, 29 November 2008.	Patricia	IMP Books	0	11-28-2008 11:16 PM
Philosophy James, William: The Moral Philosopher and the Moral Life, v.1, 29 November 2008.	Patricia	BBeB/LRF Books	0	11-28-2008 11:13 PM

01-30-2012, 01:57 PM	#2
gweeks Fanatic Posts: 509 Karma: 3455210 Join Date: Apr 2007 Device: Rocket, Nook ST, Kobo WiFi, Kindle PW	The publisher probably doesn't have distribution rights any more and can't do anything with it any way. You might have more luck offering to the author, though if it's a media tie in they might not have rights either. Greg Weeks

01-30-2012, 02:02 PM	#3
sbroome Youngsta Posts: 202 Karma: 1041786 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: San Diego Device: kindle	Not related to books, but years ago I had all the episodes of two series (Nowhere Man and Bakersfield PD) that I loved on VHS and contacted the companies asking if they'd like to use my tapes for a DVD so that people like me could buy the episodes on DVD. They never responded, because honestly neither show did very well in the first place.

01-30-2012, 02:16 PM	#4
elemenoP Wizard Posts: 1,717 Karma: 3790058 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NYC Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Sony 650	I really never understood the need to scan pbooks. I would just read the book! What's so bad about picking up a pbook and reading it? I mean, you had to pick the pbook to scan it, anyway. As far as the publishers wanting your files, if the book was published in the last 10 years, they almost certainly have electronic source files laying around somewhere. The book was not typeset on a Gutenberg-style moveable type press, after all. eP

01-30-2012, 06:38 PM	#5
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	If it is a recent book, a digital copy almost certainly exists, but a lot of the paper books in my bookshelf are a lot older than 10 years. I think a lot of people scan books not so much to read them on an e-reader, but to preserve them. There are a lot of older books that are languishing because there are just a few copies sitting around. I like the idea of scanning them and offering them to the copyright holder. Is there a way to tell if a book is still under copyright? Of course, the really old books are copyright, but there are some books in between where it may or may not still be under copyright, is there any way I can look up the copyright status of a book, to see if it had been renewed? Some books would be public domain today if the book had not been renewed, but still under copyright if it had.

01-30-2012, 06:41 PM	#6
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	@Hellmark, I cut and scan all the Deathlands novels and tried to convince Harlequin to re-sell them. They refused -- I think because the series was written by several authors, some of whom are now dead.

01-31-2012, 12:27 PM	#7
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	They're mass market paperbacks, they're not meant to last. Several books I have already have pages coming loose. If I scan them, I can keep reading them without totally destroying them (I don't do the the cut and scan method). And yeah, for recent ones it is probably in some digital form, but that doesn't mean it can easily be made into an ebook. If it is made 1978 or after, then it is definitely under copyright. If it is 1928 or after, the likelihood of it being not copyrighted is extremely slim.

01-31-2012, 12:39 PM	#9
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	I know the date which everything older is public domain. But there is a pretty long stretch of time where things are public domain if the copyright was not renewed. Is there a way to find out of the copyright was renewed?

01-31-2012, 03:36 PM	#11
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	Wikipedia has a few lists of things in the public domain, but the way the chips are falling, we probably will be seeing a lot of stuff go back under copyright. Based on Obama signing ACTA, and Supreme court ruling that works in the public domain can be placed under copyright again, pretty much forget anything about the ones where they didn't get renewed.

01-31-2012, 04:18 PM	#12
Ninjalawyer Guru Posts: 826 Karma: 18573626 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Touch, Nexus 7 (2013)	It's a little bit funny in a way, but for obscure works (like less popular romance novels and tv show novelizations), it's likely that someone scanning and uploading the books (i.e. pirating) them is the only way they'll avoid being lost forever. I bring this up only because I recently read an article on this in the context of old computer games. For old, not very popular games, it's often the case that no one even knows who has the rights, so piracy is really the only way the works aren't completely lost to culture.

01-31-2012, 04:32 PM	#13
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	Abandonware! (The computer game industry has actually been pretty relaxed about Abandonware. There are even some REALLY GOOD remakes of old Sierra games out there, designed to run on newer machines.)

Advert

Advert

01-31-2012, 05:02 PM	#14
QuantumIguana Philosopher Posts: 2,034 Karma: 18736532 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch	Agreed. Many more obscure books will slip through the cracks. If copyright keeps getting extended, they may disappear forever. The copyright owner may not know that they own the copyright, so they can sit in limbo.