Do we need Publishers For eBooks?

[Whackatagin]

Hi,

Just thought I would pitch this one in and see what the masses think.

The banner head "Publishing is changing" has been everywhere for a couple of years now. But, how is it changing? And, how does that affect you and me, the writers?

Well firstly, the "Gate-Keepers" are filling there pants. I, of course, mean agents. Where once they stood between the writer and the publisher ready to take their slice of the pie in return for letting you into the "Castle", the only place where you could get your work out there, but now we can do it ourselves. With a little patience, a few new skills, and a couple of free programs, we can dive, prepapred or not, into the marketplace with our ebooks. So why would anyone need an agent now? Would we not rather self-publish blind and see what fortune favours us with? In the new book world an advance is as arcane as block type-setting. So what is the role of an agent in tomoorow's market?

Print will probably never die, worse case they will become collectable "ornaments", a badge of pride and omage to our favourite works. But digital is here, digital is growing, and soon digital is going to grab print by the neck and bluntly inform it "I'm the Alpha now, your time as king is over". So how are the big publishing houses going to survive? What devious little tricks are they planning to hold onto their big offices and expense accounts? That is probaly a more scary question than you might think. Aside from a bit of marketing, a bit of butcherous editing, and a derogatory attitude, what do they have that writers' alone or in groups don't?

My shout to the big 5... "Watch your back! I can do what you do, probably better, and with no overheads." Todays costs in producing a trade fiction novel are little more than time, commitment, a measure of talent, and a lilttle knowhow.

I'd give my neighbour 10-20% of my earnings if he/she could do a good edit, format my work, help me with a good cover, and deal with all the tax withholding issues. Does that make him/her a big player in publishing if our project sells 20,30,40K? And to be honest, are sales for a debut author going to be any less likely along that path than going with a big publishing house? Hype and advertising is there only weapon now.

So will all the agents now turn on their masters and become micro-digital publishers? Should we become our own micro-digital publishers?

In a few hundred years will history still tell of the horror and hethenistic burning of the Kindles and nooks during the great war and uprisings of the mid 21st century?

Joking aside, the ereaders will still be there in the future, burnt or not. It's how we make sure that we get our chance as writers today to ensure that we get the best chances and the best deals that should be the buring question.

What do you think?

[mr ploppy]

One day they will probably handle subsidiary rights — hardbacks, audiobooks, film/TV/radio adaptations, merchandise, etc.

But I wouldn't write them off just yet, in a writer group on Facebook I know there's no shortage of people who still dream of giving away 80% of their income so that they can lose control over their writing.

[Elfwreck]

Self-publishing is terrific for authors who can and will arrange their own editing, formatting, book covers, and marketing. And many of them can. But a great many would rather write, and hand over a portion of the proceeds to whomever will tackle the "convert manuscript into book" steps they'd rather not bother with.

Also, the public would generally rather buy something they know something about--even if that's just "it's part of SuperNewPublishing's fantasy adventure line."

Random books by totally independent authors are an acquired taste; you kind of have to love missing commas, homophones, and eggcorns. Also, it takes an affinity for plots that meander and never arrive anywhere, drastic shifts in point of view, and long, intensely detailed dialogue followed by a two-sentence description of the crucial action scene. If you're willing to put up with that, you can sometimes find *incredible* stories that'd never get past a publisher, and literary experimentation that can make you rethink everything you know about how textual stories should be told. (And hey, the incredible stuff usually isn't always the stuff that sucks--but you can't find it without wading through the slushpile.)

We will always need publishers for:

• The jobs some writers don't want to do, and will stop writing if they have to
• To tell the readers what kind of book this is, because sometimes you want to know if something is a romance or a murder mystery before the third chapter
• To pay the up-front costs that writers can't afford: research, photographs, licensing of previously-published materials
• To notice a market demand and seek writers who'd be willing and able to fill it, but don't know the demand exists (esp. for nonfic)

But we don't need publishers for all kinds of writing, and now a lot of authors can explore other options for those books. Authors can discover how much audience exists for murder mystery erotica, and books written in second-person point of view, and 18,000-word stories that were always too big for magazines (unless they were serialized, chopping up the flow) and too small for print.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Self-publishing is terrific for authors who can and will arrange their own editing, formatting, book covers, and marketing. And many of them can. But a great many would rather write, and hand over a portion of the proceeds to whomever will tackle the "convert manuscript into book" steps they'd rather not bother with.

This. If some big publisher would come along and pick up my novels and handle marketing, editing, covers, etc I would definitely listen. I think the "publisher" role will still exist for the foreseeable future, and agents (which are really head hunters) are not going anywhere so long as there are publishers looking for heads.

[Whackatagin]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

If some big publisher would come along and pick up my novels and handle marketing, editing, covers, etc I would definitely listen.

Of course, who wouldn't. If the wolves come sniffing it's becuase they see the possibility of a good meal. It's probably still one of the biggest slaps on the back a writer can receive, but at a massive financial price in terms of your success, unfortunately. Tradition is a hard thing to break away from, but I think the core question here is, (Elfwreck's thoughts notwithstanding) does a good writer with a good story still need a publisher in the conventional sense? Can a small competent independant freelance formatter/editor compete on a level playing field with the "Big Boys"? I think we still need a third party to ground our expectations and doe-eyed view of our own work, but is that a role that can only be fulfilled by a tradional publishing house as we go forward into the "New World" of digital publishing?

Mr Ploppy, (so true!) But I think we still have to respect there dreams, although there may be some benefit in them having a quick flick through Darwin's "Origin of the Species."

Elfwreck,
Yes, there are a LOT of speculative/novice writers pumping poorly written and formatted work out into the market these days, that's a given. A massive wave of hobby writing is making it onto the virtual shelves without passing muster, or even having a spellcheck run in many cases, never mind a good copy/style edit & proofing. Haste and ease to publish is their worst enemy. But, that said, are we any less likely to discover the next "Big Thing" (I didn't say her name) or cult/viral series (like "The Twiglet Saga", or whatever it's called) if it is produced by a small independant, or indeed completely (and properly) self-published? Remember, the first "H-word" book was only a 1000 print run, UK only, and 500 went straight to libraries. But the main publishing houses aren't prepapred to follow this "pile them high sell them cheap" or "suck & see" approach to authors anymore. Twenty titles on a catalogue that may sell a couple of thousand each and combined generate some revenue is really a thing of the past. Where once you may have had a one in blah thousand chance of signing a deal, now, as a debut author, you have the preverbial snowball's chance.

Opinion:
Writing a decent novel in terms of content & quality is a much harder skill to master than "making" an ebook and firing it out there to dilute the shelves, if you get my meaning? Just because you know how to "drive" doesn't mean you're going to win the Nascar series or F1 championship. Natural talent is rare. Most of us have to learn, pratice, and work very hard to even get close to the lucky few who seem to do it with ease and dominate the leaderboards of the literary world.

Related question:
It's the old question again, do you write to live? Or, live to write? The former I think has new options today, the latter, very probably, still really needs some form of publishing support to temper and polish their work. (A bit harsh, but true I think.) That said, I think those who can provide this service should do so on a percentage return basis, not as paid for up front services. They should be engaging with, not exploiting the dreams of, aspiring new talents. What do you think?

ps Before anything gets out of hand, this thread is intended as a forum for witty remarks and a little philosophical comment. It's just food for thought and opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own.

[sonofpendragon]

Hmmm, not sure what to think now. I have thought about this, but upon asking a programmer if it was an easy thing to do on a shoestring budget and a PC World £400 special, he said yes, but he also definitely did not recommend it. He said there were no problems, none at all, with setting it all up as needed, including the cart, but he also added that digital theft is so easy and is such a massive problem, that hosting and selling is still best left to the big boys, as he put it, to do this on our behalf. That was enough to put me off, but each time I read a thread like this, I go back to the 'I wonder if. . .' state.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by Whackatagin

Of course, who wouldn't. If the wolves come sniffing it's becuase they see the possibility of a good meal. It's probably still one of the biggest slaps on the back a writer can receive, but at a massive financial price in terms of your success, unfortunately. Tradition is a hard thing to break away from, but I think the core question here is, (Elfwreck's thoughts notwithstanding) does a good writer with a good story still need a publisher in the conventional sense? Can a small competent independant freelance formatter/editor compete on a level playing field with the "Big Boys"? I think we still need a third party to ground our expectations and doe-eyed view of our own work, but is that a role that can only be fulfilled by a tradional publishing house as we go forward into the "New World" of digital publishing

...snip...


Related question:
It's the old question again, do you write to live? Or, live to write? The former I think has new options today, the latter, very probably, still really needs some form of publishing support to temper and polish their work. (A bit harsh, but true I think.) That said, I think those who can provide this service should do so on a percentage return basis, not as paid for up front services. They should be engaging with, not exploiting the dreams of, aspiring new talents. What do you think?

But that is the point, I write because I love to tell stories. I suspect many authors would agree. I suspect that most authors would not tell you that they write because they "love marketing," "love typeface setting," or "love dealing with retail chains." If someone one can be paid to do all the rest of the junk and just let us write, I suspect most authors would be very happy with that.

I suppose that there are some fools that get in this to be rich... but I suspect their are the minority.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by sonofpendragon

Hmmm, not sure what to think now. I have thought about this, but upon asking a programmer if it was an easy thing to do on a shoestring budget and a PC World £400 special, he said yes, but he also definitely did not recommend it. He said there were no problems, none at all, with setting it all up as needed, including the cart, but he also added that digital theft is so easy and is such a massive problem, that hosting and selling is still best left to the big boys, as he put it, to do this on our behalf. That was enough to put me off, but each time I read a thread like this, I go back to the 'I wonder if. . .' state.

If you mean piracy, the big boys are pirated a lot more than the small boys, so whatever they are doing to stop it obviously isn't working. But according to UK government statistics, only 10% of the population downloads unauthorised content, so that still leaves the other 90% either paying for it or doing without. Compared with the market for second hand paperbacks or library loans, that's a tiny figure to worry about.

[QuantumIguana]

Consider the inventor. An inventor may no desire or ability to run a company, and instead prefer to sell the invention to some company. Then the inventor can go on the next invention. Similarly, a writer may may not want to take on the all the tasks of promoting and marketing their book. There are advantages and disadvantages in both traditional publishing and independent publishing. Traditional publishers aren't "wolves", they offer a service. You decide whether it is beneficial to you or not.

[Lazybones]

I still remember a quote that I once read in a book entitled, The Cynic's Dictionary:

Author: A Writer with connections in the publishing industry.

The problem with traditional publishing is that the barriers to entry were so high that there was almost no chance for even a skilled writer to make it into print. For every successful writer there were a hundred who could not get past the slush pile. The Internet has lowered the walls, and allows anyone to offer their work to the public. We're still working out methods for sorting that deluge, but I think once a viable system for sorting out the quality from the dreck takes hold traditional publishers are going to lose their most important lever: the ability to control access to the consumer market.

[Whackatagin]

Wise words, Lazybones.


In other news....

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Traditional publishers aren't "wolves", they offer a service. You decide whether it is beneficial to you or not.

A very fair comment, but it was just an analogy. Although, from the author's perspective, not that far off the mark in terms of who's gets to make, and be in control of, said "offer".

Just playing devil's advocate here for a moment...

I think you have to get past the "Is it benefical to them or not?" before you have the opportunity to make that decision of whether it is benifical to you or not, traditional or otherwise.

Anyway, the threads is about options, alternatives, and possibilities, not publisher bashing. Please accept my apologies if some of my sweeping remarks intended to get the ball rolling came over as a pot-shot at the "establishment".

[QuantumIguana]

The publishers aren't wolves from the author's perspective. They might be from *an* author's perspective, but not from *the* author's perspective. There are many authors who choose to go with traditional publishers, and feel that they are not being preyed upon, but being offered a beneficial deal.

You can't make a realistic decision on whether traditional publishing or independent is right for you unless you have a realistic understanding of the pluses and minuses of traditional publishing or independent publishing. There are pluses and minuses to both.

[ebusinesstutor]

I think there is a place for services to handle editing, preparation for print and marketing. If traditional publishers can adapt to doing this for ebooks, fine. If they can't, I'm sure many talented people will fill this need.

[Whackatagin]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

I think there is a place for services to handle editing, preparation for print and marketing. If traditional publishers can adapt to doing this for ebooks, fine. If they can't, I'm sure many talented people will fill this need.

Indeed. Sub-contract and freelance support for digital projects is a growing enterprize for many talented up and commers. Within the trade these services are lucrative and reliable. But on the street, much like hiring a self-employed tradesman to do a job in your home, other than by recommendation or reputation, how can you trust they will do a proper job for you and not just take the money, mess it up, and disappear? A few cowboys can destroy the reputation of many, many good and competent people providing these services. People that new/aspiring/self-publishing authors could probably really benefit from working with, should they choose this this path.

If this role is going to be more common place and a practical option for independant authors, and I think it should be, how can they be regulated? The word of mouth option is really the only way at the moment, and that's hardly a suitable marketing arena for a reputable freelancer to grow their business and reputation.

I assume from your screen-name that this is probably an issue you have given a little thought to already, care to share?
(In principle of course, we're not looking for free advice or lessons)

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Whackatagin

The word of mouth option is really the only way at the moment, and that's hardly a suitable marketing arena for a reputable freelancer to grow their business and reputation.

While the things I do has changed a few times, I've been a freelance something or other for over 20 years now, and word of mouth is the best marketing you can get. I still get people phoning me about things I don't do any more.