I Wish Everyone Understood This

[Prestidigitweeze]

Horror writer Joe Lansdale just posted this as a public announcement on Facebook:

This isn't a lesson, but something writers should know. You aren't a writer if you steal other writer's work. All of us are influenced by writers, and the influence can be seen by the well read, but influence is different from theft. The number of novels written today that have been recalled for stolen sections is amazing. So many young writers who have grown up in a world where it's okay to steal music, and movies, and books, think it's also okay to steal the words. Listen you goddamn f*****g thieves, if you want to be influenced by a writer, that's fine, but let the influence come through with your story and your way of putting it down. Borrowing a stylistic trick is one thing, but borrowing the exact book is not. Note that there have been at least two books recently that had to be withdrawn for being stolen from other books. One had whole unchanged passages taken from other books, thirteen for sure, and maybe more. It does matter if you stole the words that a writer worked hard to create. It matters a lot. It's no different than my coming to your house and stealing your car to drive around because I can't get mine to start.

[JeremyR]

Isn't this misplaced, though? It's scam artists who do this, not writers.

I think most writers have no problem writing their own stuff, they just can't get it published.

Cases like this happen when someone somehow gets a contract with a publishing company (good at self promotion, I guess) and can't fulfill it

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Isn't this misplaced, though? It's scam artists who do this, not writers.

I think most writers have no problem writing their own stuff, they just can't get it published.

Cases like this happen when someone somehow gets a contract with a publishing company (good at self promotion, I guess) and can't fulfill it

Miracles happen.

I didn't think there could be any new reasons why I hate salesmen at my age, but you just came up with one.

[mr ploppy]

Is there any way that could happen subconsciously rather than deliberately?

[Andanzas]

I couldn't agree more, Prestidigitweeze! Actually, I wanted to help, so I decided to post a public announcement on Facebook too:

This isn't a lesson, but something writers should know. You aren't a writer if you steal other writer's work. All of us are influenced by writers, and the influence can be seen by the well read, but influence is different from theft. The number of novels written today that have been recalled for stolen sections is amazing. So many young writers who have grown up in a world where it's okay to steal music, and movies, and books, think it's also okay to steal the words. Listen you goddamn f*****g thieves, if you want to be influenced by a writer, that's fine, but let the influence come through with your story and your way of putting it down. Borrowing a stylistic trick is one thing, but borrowing the exact book is not. Note that there have been at least two books recently that had to be withdrawn for being stolen from other books. One had whole unchanged passages taken from other books, thirteen for sure, and maybe more. It does matter if you stole the words that a writer worked hard to create. It matters a lot. It's no different than my coming to your house and stealing your car to drive around because I can't get mine to start.

[mrscoach]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Is there any way that could happen subconsciously rather than deliberately?

Highly unlikely when the passages are word for word. Or even if they are just ALMOST exactly the same. And it happens over and over. You wouldn't remember the passages the same way, and if you did you probably have perfect recall, which means you would know you had read it.

I can see subconsciously 'having the same idea' or maybe a few elements the same. In those cases it is how you treat the material. How many stories are there about boy wizards, or orphans, or stories with wizards in general, or centaurs, unicorns, Cerberus's (plural of Cerberus?)? Or, heaven forbid, vampires and/or werewolves . It's when the crosses over from having the same broad idea to copying elements that the problem arises.

Just my take.

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by Andanzas

I couldn't agree more, Prestidigitweeze! Actually, I wanted to help, so I decided to post a public announcement on Facebook too:

Not funny

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

Not funny

I laughed.

Briefly.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Isn't this misplaced, though? It's scam artists who do this, not writers.

I think most writers have no problem writing their own stuff, they just can't get it published.

That's the fanfic author's argument. "Sure I can create my own worlds, but I'd rather write the fanfics people want, and then once I've got a following I'll strike out on my own."

[dadioflex]

Anyone know the specifics about the two novels that had to be withdrawn from sale? I do have one incident in the back of my mind, but it's all Dead Grannies until I see a link to somewhere recognizable.

Is he talking about stealing a scene and re-writing it, or cutting and pasting?

I see nothing wrong with re-writing a scene. I don't really see anything wrong with wholesale lifting of plots and characters, so long as you use your own words.

There are, what, seven archetypal plots. There are far more archetypal characters, but they all started out as being new and unique to someone.

Culture does not thrive where lawyers abound.

But yeah, cutting and pasting would be bad. Also, stupid.

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by dadioflex

But yeah, cutting and pasting would be bad. Also, stupid.

... and not (very) creative.

[dadioflex]

Cutting and pasting is always bad and stupid.

If you're making a collage, it may be creative.

Still bad and stupid though.

[Spock96]

I agree with this. Try doing what I did contact the author that inspired you and check about copyrights and what not so you can do your own thing, though it may be similar. You don't get screwed. I don't understand why others steal works. I mean it made them famous(maybe) but it's out there to the public already, it won't do the same for you.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by dadioflex

Anyone know the specifics about the two novels that had to be withdrawn from sale? I do have one incident in the back of my mind, but it's all Dead Grannies until I see a link to somewhere recognizable.

Is he talking about stealing a scene and re-writing it, or cutting and pasting?

I see nothing wrong with re-writing a scene. I don't really see anything wrong with wholesale lifting of plots and characters, so long as you use your own words.

There are, what, seven archetypal plots. There are far more archetypal characters, but they all started out as being new and unique to someone.

Culture does not thrive where lawyers abound.

But yeah, cutting and pasting would be bad. Also, stupid.

There was one well-publicised case recently where a spy novel had entire scenes taken from James Bond books, I recall.

EDIT: Here we are, "Assassin of Secrets", by one "Q.R. Markham". A report about it in the UK's Guardian newspaper here.

"He seemed to have taken most of his action scenes and dialogue from post-Fleming Bond novels (at least six of Gardner's), and added long poetic descriptions from several of McCarry's books, as well as the back-story for his protagonist. A bizarre personal playlist of his favourite moments in the genre, I guess, all sewn together with the magic of Controls C and V," said Duns. "I immediately emailed the publisher, explaining the situation and giving the example from the Bond message board and all the others I had found, and asking them to remove the Q&A I had done with him from their websites – he had of course also plagiarised many of his comments in it, from Dream Time by Geoffrey O'Brien, which was also the source for much of his book's prologue – and to withdraw the book."

There was another case a year or so ago where some teenage girl published a book that turned out to have been "lifted" from other sources.

EDIT: This case was one "Kaavya Viswanathan" back in 2006. Wiki article on the subject here.

[crich70]

There was a well known romance author who 'borrowed' her story from another author some yrs back I believe. It caused a big stink when it came to light too.