Bit like Beta v VHS

[druggist61]

I have been toying with buying an ebook reader and like the idea of eink rather than LCD display.

In Australia Borders stores went bust and they only have an online presence.

I guess my question is which format is supported by the company with the best prospects? From down under both B&N and Amazon look pretty big.

Oh for a standard format for all ebooks from all outlets.

I wonder when dictionarys will have ebook and ereader as words correctly spelt?

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Epub is the universal format. Kindle formats are not compatible on anything but a Kindle, whereas Epub formats are compatible on every single reader except a Kindle.

You definitely have more freedom with an ereader that uses Epub.

B&N uses Epub, but their DRM is restrictive and won't let you read their Epubs on other non-Nook Epub-reading devices. They also won't tell you whether the book you're buying is DRM'ed or not - basically they don't tell you what you're paying for, and you just have to take the risk. The Nook also apparently does some folder tricks with non-B&N books on your device to separate them from each other. I don't know what purpose that serves other than making things more difficult.

I use a Kobo Touch, which I think was just released Down Under. Kobo is sort of the #3 "underdog" in the ereading market, but they're much freer and more open about format and the Kobo store doesn't refuse to tell me what I'm buying. I appreciate that, and I'm very happy with mine. It also gets much more frequent updates with features being added all the time. There are even a couple reps and beta testers hanging out in the Kobo subforum here, and you can submit requests directly to them.

[amward]

I'm very happy with my Sony, seems to read Epub from any source I have tried, although that's not many. Do you plan to use libraries? If you do make sure your device is compatible with the system the library is using, not all devices are even if they read Epub.

[druggist61]

At this point of time my local library, Hornsby, hasn't chosen a format.

I guess I chose the Kindle Keyboard 3G as a stopgap because I can also use it as a way of accessing the internet when away from home.

In the 3 weeks that I have owned it I have read many free books and the Sydney Morning Herald & The Australia for free so it probably won't owe me anything.

The rest of my family want an ereader for Christmas, I know I can share purchased books across the same account but want to point them in the right direction.

I guess that I would be more comfortable with the Kindle if Amazon hadn't decided to make it exclusive to Woolworths owned shops down under.

I wonder if Nook or Kobo will turn up in Coles owned shops in retaliation?

[Kevin8or]

I chose the Kindle because it felt good in my hands and was easy on the eyes. ePub is the universal format, but that hasn't stopped me from being able to read anything on my Kindle. The format converter within Calibre is quite good.

Even DRM isn't an issue, depending on your ethical principles. My sister gave me a gift card to Barnes & Noble. I have every intention of purchasing some e-books there, in all their DRM-wrapped, ePub glory. I'll install a DRM-stripping tool, followed by Calibre seamlessly converting the books to Kindle's format as it sends them to my device.

Because of the format flexibility, I'd suggest making the physical ease-of-use your highest priority, followed by your GUI preferences. Or vice-versa. Try some different e-readers. Talk your friends into letting you use theirs for a few hours. Try a Nook at a Barnes & Noble store. Unlike Beta vs. VHS, the e-book format is actually a minor consideration IMHO.

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Epub is the universal format. Kindle formats are not compatible on anything but a Kindle, whereas Epub formats are compatible on every single reader except a Kindle.

You definitely have more freedom with an ereader that uses Epub.

Mobi can be read on any computer or tablet. As for Ereaders, Amazon controls over 50% global marketshare, which means there are more ereaders out there that can read mobi than epub.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

Mobi can be read on any computer or tablet. As for Ereaders, Amazon controls over 50% global marketshare, which means there are more ereaders out there that can read mobi than epub.

That really doesn't matter in the least to the individual user. They have more choices about where they get their books from, and also how viable those books will be in the future. That's what matters.

[Kevin8or]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

how viable those books will be in the future. That's what matters.

As to this, Calibre and Apprentice Alf offer protection against obsolesence. A Kindle (or Nook) user can add everything they buy to Calibre, seamlessly stripping the DRM wrapper in the process. Calibre becomes a repository of DRM-free e-books that can be format-shifted to any future device the owner chooses.

In the U.S., this is against a law known as the DMCA. Everywhere in the world, this is called fairly using what you own. You live in Australia, so DMCA isn't a concern, and you needn't worry about purchasing a library of e-books that will become obsolete.

SmokeAndMirrors is right, though. ePub is an open standard, readable by all but the Kindle. Although you can convert a Kindle's .mobi files to .epub, you might someday prefer to read pristine .epubs rather than ones converted from .mobi.

Come to think of it, you could even buy your books in .epub and read them, converted to .mobi, on your Kindle. Amazon should be sent to the stockade for using a proprietary format, but despite Amazon's effort there's actually tremendous format flexibility.

I still think GUI and physical preferences should be your guide in choosing an e-reader.

[Fbone]

Where will your family obtain most of their ebooks? Use that as a starting place.

[HarryT]

You are aware that B&N only sell ebooks to people in the US?

[caleb72]

From a "Down Under" perspective, forget about Barnes & Noble. The Nook and the B&N store are not going to be much good for Australians as they don't sell here.

EDIT: Harry got there first - as usual.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by Kevin8or

As to this, Calibre and Apprentice Alf offer protection against obsolesence. A Kindle (or Nook) user can add everything they buy to Calibre, seamlessly stripping the DRM wrapper in the process. Calibre becomes a repository of DRM-free e-books that can be format-shifted to any future device the owner chooses.

I'm aware of this - I use it.

But going for a less locked down reader necessitates less of that extra work than a more locked-down reader. Double that if you have a locked-down format.

It is true you can get around anything, but why should someone pay for the privileged of having to fight the thing they've just purchased? If you can lessen the work by simply buying something else, it's silly not to recommend that instead.

Yes, I certainly could pick the lock but why would I pay for the lock in the first place?

I choose to go the extra mile and make everything I have as uniform as possible. However, if I were disinclined to do that, it is much less work on a Kobo (or a Pocketboot, or a Cybook, etc) than it would be on a Kindle or a Nook to simply retain my files.

The Kobo store is straight-forward and honest about whether a given book is DRM'ed. No guess work required. Not true of B&N, who refuse to disclose if a book is DRM'ed (did I mention their DRM won't work on any other device but theirs?). Even Kindle can be sort of dodgy about that.

I can go to Project Gutenberg and get free books in Epub format. I can go to just about any store outside of Amazon and B&N DRM (but like I said, how can you tell with them?) and get books that will work with what I have.

If I'm a little savvy about it and avoid DRM, I will never have any issues. Even when EpubX comes out, the upgraded format is backwards compatible.

If I go the MOBI route, things get considerably more complicated. The only device that reads my files is Kindle, and Kindle's apps. However, Kindle has a habit of deciding to change their format every few years and render all previous generations of ereaders useless in reading the new format. They're doing it right now for what I believe is the 2nd or 3rd time.

When that happens, I've got a lot of work to do, converting everything, "liberating" any DRM'ed books I've accidentally stumbled upon (and again, although Amazon is not as straight-up dishonest as B&N on this issue, they do make it difficult), etc.

If you've got a Nook and B&N books, you basically have no idea what you have because they refuse to tell you what you're buying. The only way to find out, unless you preemptively go to the trouble to install a DRM-stripping plugin, is to try to put your books on something else and see how many of them don't work. But it's moot, since Nook has no international support anyway.

Why would I recommend to someone that they pay for all that trouble over the simpler approach above?

[Kevin8or]

Well, I agree with almost everything SmokeAndMirrors says. I'm certainly not going to defend the Kindle in the field of the format wars. Locking the Kindle out of reading .epubs is just plain rotten.

However, druggist61 already has a Kindle, and now s/he knows how to get around the restriction.

Keeping customers blind to what they're buying, a la B&N, stinks too.

My only departure from SmokeAndMirrors is on how important the formats are when choosing an e-reader.

You spend untold hours holding and staring at your e-reader, giving no thought to file formats as you're lost in your books. For this reason, I believe the actual feel, look, and performace of the e-reader is of greater importance than the formats it reads, or the restrictions of its native online store. For example, I tried a relative's Kobo reader, and it felt heavier, with squared edges, compared to the Kindle. I preferred the Kindle.

By contrast to your actual reading, the time you'll spend on administrative tasks is minimal. Formats are a consideration here, and the Kobo's openess is a strong selling point. I just don't think it's as important as SmokeAndMirrors does.

In the original Beta v. VHS question, the OP wondered if he might be stuck with an obsolete device or formats. My answer is no. The interoperability here makes the analogy break down. It will take you a few extra clicks of the mouse (for conversion), but you can make your VHS ePub files play on your Betamax Kindle, and your Beta .mobi files play on, well, anything.

So anyway, try a Kobo, a Nook, a Sony, any kind you can get your hands on. It's only then that you'll see and feel the differences.

[druggist61]

Thanks all for the feedback, will have a look at the Sony and try and see a Nook.

Sony looks good with its extra memory availability, perhaps I'll wait and see if Coles group bring out an opponent to Kindle before Christmas.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by Kevin8or

Well, I agree with almost everything SmokeAndMirrors says. I'm certainly not going to defend the Kindle in the field of the format wars. Locking the Kindle out of reading .epubs is just plain rotten.

However, druggist61 already has a Kindle, and now s/he knows how to get around the restriction.

Keeping customers blind to what they're buying, a la B&N, stinks too.

My only departure from SmokeAndMirrors is on how important the formats are when choosing an e-reader.

You spend untold hours holding and staring at your e-reader, giving no thought to file formats as you're lost in your books. For this reason, I believe the actual feel, look, and performace of the e-reader is of greater importance than the formats it reads, or the restrictions of its native online store. For example, I tried a relative's Kobo reader, and it felt heavier, with squared edges, compared to the Kindle. I preferred the Kindle.

By contrast to your actual reading, the time you'll spend on administrative tasks is minimal. Formats are a consideration here, and the Kobo's openess is a strong selling point. I just don't think it's as important as SmokeAndMirrors does.

In the original Beta v. VHS question, the OP wondered if he might be stuck with an obsolete device or formats. My answer is no. The interoperability here makes the analogy break down. It will take you a few extra clicks of the mouse (for conversion), but you can make your VHS ePub files play on your Betamax Kindle, and your Beta .mobi files play on, well, anything.

So anyway, try a Kobo, a Nook, a Sony, any kind you can get your hands on. It's only then that you'll see and feel the differences.

Really? I like the quiltiness and the angles.

Everyone has their own criteria. But format combined with DRM compatibility and store honesty can greatly affect the amount of time you have to spend doing something other than enjoying your ereader. Smart purchasing and some basic knowledge of what causes these issues can help you avoid problems down the line.

I do think this is an under-appreciated issue - which is shocking, considering how often consumers complain about it without know what is causing all the problems they're having.

Ultimately, if consumers would educate themselves about what causes these problems, and then make purchases based on that knowledge, these problems would cease to exist. And so would all the extra not-enjoying-my-ereader time that one currently has to spend to ensure the viability of their Kindle books (or B&N... or hey, anything that's DRM'ed).

I've always been someone to research the hell out of anything I plan to buy that will cost more than $100. Not because I'm that awesome, but because I'm that broke... and that obsessive.

But it's a habit that's paid off. And when one uncovers issues under the hood that are frankly egregious, I think it's imperative to sound the alarm.

And to be fair, the question is about formatting.

But, you're right, how a device plays with you is important. And depending on what else the OP's criteria might be outside of format concerns, the answer changes considerably. The KT is getting a lot of firmware features, which is great, but it's still a pretty spartan reader in a lot of ways - that suits me fine. If you want more features, my recommendation would change (Pocketbooks are pretty powerful feature-wise, and very, very open).

But talkin' formats? Open Epub readers. I can't recommend anything else in good conscience. I happen to own a KT, so that's what I know.