Allegedly.....

[carpetmojo]

[Don't know if I can find a permissble way of saying this, but here goes - Mod's sorry if I don't succeed, I quite understand if you eject it !]

Discussing things ereadery with son's Ozzy mate yesterday, and I mentioned I preferred my 650 to any kindle.
The discussion shifted to various views of Amazon's ebook formatting policies, and I said how annoying it was that their books were "out of bounds" to non-kindle users who might want to pay good money for a book, but didn't want to buy their reader, and refused to be forced to purchase one.....

Now, allegedly, it was then said by the gent, that this was nonsense, you just buy the books, convert to PDF, and away you go, reading said purchased book....

Now, as most know, I am Mr. Tech-dunce, so I murmured non-committedly, and had another drink.

Now, were this scenario chance to occur - perhaps accidentally - would, theoretically naturally, what he allegedly said be true ?

'Cos it sounded a bit, well, simple an operation to my feeble brain.

Not that I necessarily have any idea what PDF really means/stands for anyway, or if I've ever been near one to tread on it....

[Ron.]

Portable Document Format

[carpetmojo]

Anyway, apart from not selling their reader to those who prefer other ones, is there another reason why you can [freely] download K4PC and read the book on that - which makes "them" exactly as much money as if sold to someone with a Sony/Samsung/Nook etc... [you know what I mean]

[carpetmojo]

Originally Posted by Ron.

Portable Document Format

Ah, yes, I knew what it stood for - but does that mean you can then simply bung it around anywhere you like, via, say, a Very Good Library/conversion/application ? Even on another , say, reader perhaps ?

[Ron.]

You can convert the amazon file to PDF using calibre, you would be better off converting it to epub though (epub is what all other ereaders use) of course if the kindle file has DRM (which is likely) you would have to remove the DRM. we are not allowed to discus that here, but googling Apprentice Alf will get you answers on that.

[SensualPoet]

PDF isn't all that helpful on a 6" ereader of any brand. You are much better off with native mobi or epub.

Kindle and Adobe DRM books are easily read on computers, phones, tablets -- in fact, many devices with the sole exception of the vendor's own devices. Even the Nook Color, sold as is, can only read Nook epubs (which, presumably, will be Amazon's tablet model -- Kindle only); but iPad and Android tablets have apps to read Amazon, Kobo, Nook books (and Sony now has an Android app as well, I believe).

[wallcraft]

Some Amazon ebooks are DRM-free but most have DRM (encryption). However, it is very easy to strip the DRM and then you can use Calibre to convert from Amazon's format to ePub - which is a what your 650 reads. The DRM-stripping can even be added to Calibre via 3rd party plug-ins, so the process can be as easy as buy from Amazon, download to Kindle for PC (or Mac) and point Calibre at the ebook file. For more about DRM, see Apprentice Alf's Blog.

[Nexutix]

Well, I understood the carpetmojo's point and this discussion is again drifting centrifugally. I agree with him and, you, everyone here, must understand that this business practice is called "Vendor Lock-in".

Amazon will not get away from it ever; because it's the backbone of their whole business model. We are better off not discussing the same thing over and over again!

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

Now, allegedly, it was then said by the gent, that this was nonsense, you just buy the books, convert to PDF, and away you go, reading said purchased book....

Quite true, although I'd recommend converting to ePub rather than PDF.

For the first step, you should consult Apprentice Alf's blog, as others have mentioned.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

The discussion shifted to various views of Amazon's ebook formatting policies, and I said how annoying it was that their books were "out of bounds" to non-kindle users who might want to pay good money for a book, but didn't want to buy their reader, and refused to be forced to purchase one.....

You can read Kindle books on a variety of devices: PCs, Mac, smartphones, etc. You just can't read them on another eink device without doing some work.

[carpetmojo]

Thanks all for the replies - but the DRM umm.... bit, is......not a subject unknown to me, shall we say ......

It was just that I didn't realise there was also this [apparently] easy procedure, depending on what equipment you use.
As I suspected, it [PDF-ing] is of no/little use to me - I use readers to read - and I am not planning on getting a pad of any sort. If I did, I can't see me using it for reading. [I don't read on my K4PC.]

And patilsaurabhr get's my query - and it is "Attempted Vendor Lock-In", surely, when they issue K4PC, available to all for free. You're not locked in with that on your PC for example, only into kindle books to use that application - so you use another device . Or have the unsatisfactory experience [to me] of reading a book on your PC or laptop.
So it makes stopping other readers with other devices using the Amazon books [ "it ain't necessarily so-o-o" ] almost seem petty and a bit pointlessly vindictive, as the books are still bought and paid for, at the end of the day..

'Specially if it doesn't work anyway .........

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

So it makes stopping other readers with other devices using the Amazon books [ "it ain't necessarily so-o-o" ] almost seem petty and a bit pointlessly vindictive, as the books are still bought and paid for, at the end of the day..Specially if it doesn't work anyway .........

Actually, there is another reason for amazon not supporting other ebook readers, regardless of whether DRM works or not. It is called "not doing your enemies any favors".
This has three aspects:
First, competitive readers mostly use Adobe DRM so if Amazon were to sell compatible files they would have to pay adobe to use their system, whch includes per-book and per-reader charges, and would require Amazon to rely on Adobe servers to authenticate ebooks before sale and would complicate user support as issues relating to the DRM would not be in Amazon's power to fix. Add it all up and it means extra cost for Amazon over what it costs to sell kindle-only ebooks.
Second, adobe's role in the ebook business is to enable Amazon competitors, who so far, taken all together, sell less ebooks and readers than Amazon does. Amazon using adobe's system *at this time* would not only give money to the enabler of their competitors, it would fortify its position as the annointed epub DRM "standard" and validate its use by competitors. (Oddly, the people terrorized by Amazon's market share and "dominance" seem perfectly content with the idea of adobe controlling everything except Apple's share.)
Third, if Amazon's ebookstore supported non-Kindle readers, they would be just another adobe client instead of being in total control of their own user experience. Their ebookstore would be just one in a crowd. Conversely the quality of the ebookstore would not be unique to Kindle readers so the Kindle readers would be interchangeable with any generic adobe-compatible reader.

Whatever you may think of DRM (I think it is a plague we would all be better off without) and without endorsing lock-in (again, not good for consumers; but honestly, lock-in to adobe is not terribly different from lock-in to amazon), it is pretty clear that Amazon bucking the herd is a good competitive strategy *at this point in time*. It is *not* self-defeating, but rather an effective competitive tactic.

Approve or disapprove of it, the tactic is sound; by depriving competitive reader vendors of access to their ebookstore, they boost kindle hardware sales--by boosting kindle hardware sales (and putting kindle reading apps on every platform of note), they drive customers to their store and minimize the visibility and power of their competitors and their enabler, adobe. Compared to that, any lock-in of people unfamiliar with DRM-removal is just frosting on the cake.

Amazon knows exactly what they're doing..

[amward]

When I tried to buy an ebook from Amazon they wouldn't sell me one unless I registered my Kindle, which I don't have. Talked to the help desk man and he said I had to buy a Kindle if I wanted to buy Amazon ebooks. So bad luck to them, they've missed out.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by amward

When I tried to buy an ebook from Amazon they wouldn't sell me one unless I registered my Kindle, which I don't have. Talked to the help desk man and he said I had to buy a Kindle if I wanted to buy Amazon ebooks. So bad luck to them, they've missed out.

You should be able to register Kindle for PC or Kindle for Mac. This is the usual way for non-Kindle owners to get access to Kindle ebooks.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by amward

When I tried to buy an ebook from Amazon they wouldn't sell me one unless I registered my Kindle, which I don't have. Talked to the help desk man and he said I had to buy a Kindle if I wanted to buy Amazon ebooks. So bad luck to them, they've missed out.

Then that particular help desk person was an idiot. You can download Kindle for PC, Kindle for Mac, Kindle for iPhones or Kindle for Androids. All of which are free and all of which will allow you to purchase/download e-books from Amazon.