Justification no perfect

therealjoeblow · 08-11-2011, 03:22 AM

Has anyone else noticed that justification on the KT is not perfect? If I hold it at an oblique angle, most of the lines on a page line up pretty good, but generally between 1 and 4 on each page will hang out a fraction of a character past the others. The severity varies with font and size, but none of them are perfect, and this occurs in every book, on every page.

It's not a deal breaker, but I find it a real annoyance that they can't get something this simple right. I mean, when I read my epubs with Calibre's reader, justification is perfect; if I convert them to html and read in IE, firefox, chrome or opera, it's 100% perfect; if I convert to RTF and read in MS word, it's perfect; and even the printed versions of all books are 100% perfect; but on the KT the right side is always slightly jagged.

Something this basic should be fundamental feature that I wish the dev's would get perfect on the KT too.

Cheers
The REAL Joe.

p_a_smith · 08-11-2011, 09:35 AM

Never noticed what you describe and actually haven`t seen it in the books I have read but then again I haven't been looking for it.

You can change the justification of any book you are reading in the touch from the default which may be more to your liking. (From an open book touch the center then the AA to get fonts and justification is second from the bottom)

thepossum · 08-11-2011, 09:54 AM

I had never noticed this on my Kobo Touch until you'd mentioned it. I don't really like to read long passages of text with full justification, having the same amount of spacing between each word is easier on my eyes. That said, I do subscribe to a newspaper on my Kobo, and they force me to read that fully justified.

With fully justified text, I can see a tiny, tiny bit of overhang for words ending in the lowercase letters "f" and "g". The top of the f goes slightly over too far, and the bottom of the g is ever-so-slightly a tiny bit too far.

But when I examine the body of the text, I see that the same two letters ALSO push exactly the same distance into the next letter.

From what I can tell it is a side-effect of they way the Kobo interprets the font's kerning. Here's a quickie link to wikipedia's Kerning article for a bit more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning

Depending on which font you use, its kerning may be more or less pronounced. In the font I'm currently using, if a word ended in a capital Q it would probably overhang the right margin by the greatest amount.

And I agree that this is actually a bug in the rendering of the text: any word which, when fully rendered, overhangs the right margin should shrink the interword spacing on that line, or else if it cannot be shrunk further then that word ought to be wrapped to the next line.

JSWolf · 08-11-2011, 09:54 AM

The reason ADE does that is to try to prevent large spaces between words. But the latest ADE now supports hyphenation and Kobo was using the latest ADE, you'd have hyphens instead of slight overhang.

jswinden · 08-11-2011, 11:12 AM

I've seen this on other readers including the Kindle. As JSWolf said it is to prevent too much space between words. On the Kindle it is even more noticeable as you will periodically see a large gap at the end of a line when all the other lines are full right. I assume they use an algorithm that decides whether to justify or leave a gap depending on how much space there will be between words. I certainly prefer hyphenation, but I've also seen readers that overdo that as well.

JSWolf · 08-11-2011, 05:07 PM

I would like to have the latest version of ADE given that it now has hyphenation support. That would do away with a lot of the wide spaces.

therealjoeblow · 08-11-2011, 11:09 PM

Well, all the excuses aside, there are 2 options: justification on, and off. And when I turn it on, it should be ON, and PERFECT, not some arbitrary interpretation of "partly on". If I don't want large spaces I'll turn it off. If it's on, I certainly don't want to be disctracted by fractions of a font hanging past the end of other lines. That is NOT justification...

Cheers
The REAL Joe

Cameronpaterson · 08-12-2011, 05:19 AM

I have noticed occasional glaring quirks in line formatting - intended lines and skewiff paragraphs. There is no doubt that the current version of the Touch software has a few quirks...

John F · 08-12-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therealjoeblow

Well, all the excuses aside, there are 2 options: justification on, and off. And when I turn it on, it should be ON, and PERFECT, not some arbitrary interpretation of "partly on". If I don't want large spaces I'll turn it off. If it's on, I certainly don't want to be disctracted by fractions of a font hanging past the end of other lines. That is NOT justification...

Cheers
The REAL Joe

What he/she said. +1

SensualPoet · 08-13-2011, 05:01 PM

I haven't noticed it. In the current kepub I am reading, the second line of each new chapter is slightly indented; I am guessing the original intent was a drop cap.

I am surprised to read here that kerning is supported; I would have thought not.

Can this phenomenon be seen with all fonts? Do you see it with typical characters-per-line such as 55-80?

I'm not convinced hyphenation is preferable since auto-hyphenation tends to make glaring errors which would be far more distracting than a little white space at the end of a line.

Kindle's solution is glaring: its algorithm allows no more than 2 word spaces between words and then dumps the balance at the end of the line.

And, maybe it's just me, but I tend to read with the page directly facing, not at an oblique angle ... unless I am about to fall asleep.

TedJ · 08-14-2011, 05:49 AM

Is this song sung to the tune of "No Woman No Cry" by Bob Marley?

08-11-2011, 03:22 AM	#1
therealjoeblow Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 52102 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Samsung Android Tablet w/Moon+ Pro Reader	Justification no perfect Has anyone else noticed that justification on the KT is not perfect? If I hold it at an oblique angle, most of the lines on a page line up pretty good, but generally between 1 and 4 on each page will hang out a fraction of a character past the others. The severity varies with font and size, but none of them are perfect, and this occurs in every book, on every page. It's not a deal breaker, but I find it a real annoyance that they can't get something this simple right. I mean, when I read my epubs with Calibre's reader, justification is perfect; if I convert them to html and read in IE, firefox, chrome or opera, it's 100% perfect; if I convert to RTF and read in MS word, it's perfect; and even the printed versions of all books are 100% perfect; but on the KT the right side is always slightly jagged. Something this basic should be fundamental feature that I wish the dev's would get perfect on the KT too. Cheers The REAL Joe.

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08-11-2011, 09:35 AM	#2
p_a_smith Me, Myself, but not I Posts: 161 Karma: 228652 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kobo Original, Acer 200, Asus FHD, Kobo Touch	Never noticed what you describe and actually haven`t seen it in the books I have read but then again I haven't been looking for it. You can change the justification of any book you are reading in the touch from the default which may be more to your liking. (From an open book touch the center then the AA to get fonts and justification is second from the bottom)

08-11-2011, 09:54 AM	#3
thepossum Zealot Posts: 123 Karma: 20018 Join Date: May 2010 Device: Kobo	I had never noticed this on my Kobo Touch until you'd mentioned it. I don't really like to read long passages of text with full justification, having the same amount of spacing between each word is easier on my eyes. That said, I do subscribe to a newspaper on my Kobo, and they force me to read that fully justified. With fully justified text, I can see a tiny, tiny bit of overhang for words ending in the lowercase letters "f" and "g". The top of the f goes slightly over too far, and the bottom of the g is ever-so-slightly a tiny bit too far. But when I examine the body of the text, I see that the same two letters ALSO push exactly the same distance into the next letter. From what I can tell it is a side-effect of they way the Kobo interprets the font's kerning. Here's a quickie link to wikipedia's Kerning article for a bit more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning Depending on which font you use, its kerning may be more or less pronounced. In the font I'm currently using, if a word ended in a capital Q it would probably overhang the right margin by the greatest amount. And I agree that this is actually a bug in the rendering of the text: any word which, when fully rendered, overhangs the right margin should shrink the interword spacing on that line, or else if it cannot be shrunk further then that word ought to be wrapped to the next line.

08-11-2011, 09:54 AM	#4
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,543 Karma: 145863177 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The reason ADE does that is to try to prevent large spaces between words. But the latest ADE now supports hyphenation and Kobo was using the latest ADE, you'd have hyphens instead of slight overhang.

08-11-2011, 11:12 AM	#5
jswinden Nameless Being	I've seen this on other readers including the Kindle. As JSWolf said it is to prevent too much space between words. On the Kindle it is even more noticeable as you will periodically see a large gap at the end of a line when all the other lines are full right. I assume they use an algorithm that decides whether to justify or leave a gap depending on how much space there will be between words. I certainly prefer hyphenation, but I've also seen readers that overdo that as well.

08-11-2011, 05:07 PM	#6
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,543 Karma: 145863177 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I would like to have the latest version of ADE given that it now has hyphenation support. That would do away with a lot of the wide spaces.

08-11-2011, 11:09 PM	#7
therealjoeblow Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 52102 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Samsung Android Tablet w/Moon+ Pro Reader	Well, all the excuses aside, there are 2 options: justification on, and off. And when I turn it on, it should be ON, and PERFECT, not some arbitrary interpretation of "partly on". If I don't want large spaces I'll turn it off. If it's on, I certainly don't want to be disctracted by fractions of a font hanging past the end of other lines. That is NOT justification... Cheers The REAL Joe

08-12-2011, 05:19 AM	#8
Cameronpaterson Addict Posts: 207 Karma: 4264 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Yorkshire, England Device: Kindle Fire HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Kobo Glo, iPad, iPhone	I have noticed occasional glaring quirks in line formatting - intended lines and skewiff paragraphs. There is no doubt that the current version of the Touch software has a few quirks...

08-13-2011, 05:01 PM	#10
SensualPoet Wizard Posts: 2,302 Karma: 2607151 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo	I haven't noticed it. In the current kepub I am reading, the second line of each new chapter is slightly indented; I am guessing the original intent was a drop cap. I am surprised to read here that kerning is supported; I would have thought not. Can this phenomenon be seen with all fonts? Do you see it with typical characters-per-line such as 55-80? I'm not convinced hyphenation is preferable since auto-hyphenation tends to make glaring errors which would be far more distracting than a little white space at the end of a line. Kindle's solution is glaring: its algorithm allows no more than 2 word spaces between words and then dumps the balance at the end of the line. And, maybe it's just me, but I tend to read with the page directly facing, not at an oblique angle ... unless I am about to fall asleep.

08-14-2011, 05:49 AM	#11
TedJ Groupie Posts: 189 Karma: 86778 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Brisbane, Australia Device: Kobo Touch	Is this song sung to the tune of "No Woman No Cry" by Bob Marley?

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