EBook Problem: PBooks are Almost Free

Jeff Duntemann · 09-27-2007, 10:10 PM

I haven't seen anybody bring this up yet on Mobileread, but it's an insight I had recently: Ebooks may in part be having trouble getting traction with avid readers simply because pbooks are so easy to find and so cheap.

Here's what I mean: Pick a pbook that you like, go to ABE Books, and look for used copies. Depending on the sorts of things you favor, you'll probably find more than one copy, and perhaps hundreds. More to the point, you will often see prices under the magic $5 price point cited as the "natural" price for ebooks, and sometimes down as low as a dollar--for hardbacks as well as MM paperbacks. For example, look up one of my all-time favorite authors, John Cornwell, author of Hitler's Pope. Almost all of his books can be had in hardcover for $1 plus shipping.

Books that are currently in print and in stores may go for as much as $5, but once a book goes out of print, the price plummets. And these are not always beat-to-hell copies, either. Many of them are "remainders," which are basically unused books dumped by publishers at manufacturing cost or less, just to get them out of inventory.

ABE Books has a minimum price of $1, but on Amazon you'll find the "penny sellers" who basically give you the book for free but mark up shipping a little to survive. Cornwell's 1991 book The Hiding Places of God can be had on Amazon for a penny plus $3.99. It sounds impossible, but these people must be making it work somehow, because there are a lot of them.

Sure, if you're impatient and want the book Right Now an immediate ebook-style download is compelling, but I think most avid readers keep a "nightstand pile" of pbooks to pull from, and keep the pile fed so they're never without something new. (I certainly do this!)

I haven't seen it mentioned much in the press, but my experience is that publishers do grumble about very slightly used pbook copies of their frontlist titles selling for 25% (or less) of cover online. That being the case, one can almost understand their reluctance to price ebook editions at 20%-25% of cover, as most pundits suggest that they do. They're afraid of training people to think that Books Cost Five Bucks, as the nearly frictionless used book market is already teaching them.

All the more reason to make ebook editions available, so publishers get that $5 rather than used booksellers, but (especially with big publishers) it's going to be a long climb.

JSWolf · 09-27-2007, 11:36 PM

I just checked ABE Books for the new J. M. Dillard Star Trek book Resistance and I just saw a price of $26.41 with free shipping for a book that lists for $7.99. The cheapest prince for this book is $8.62 including shipping. Simon & Schuster list the ebook for a price of $4.54 and you can get it in MS Reader format. So what this proves is for new books, ebooks can be cheaper.

Jeff Duntemann · 09-27-2007, 11:51 PM

Heh! Then somebody is finally getting it! Actually, if experience is any guide, those used copy prices will drop like a stone after the book has been out for awhile. I guess my problem is that I almost never buy a book when it first comes out.

There's an additional bizarre (and off-topic for Mobileread) phenomenon called "mega-listers" that may possibly be affecting used pbook prices. People who are interested in used pbookselling should Google on the term. I'm still not entirely sure what to believe or how it even works, but rare book sellers are very concerned.

andym · 09-28-2007, 08:24 AM

John

I don't know what Abebooks terms and conditions are like but if they are like Amazon, there is a set amount for postage and this is charged per item. In the case of many paperbacks you can still make money even if you charge nothing or even have a negative price. That doesn't of course mean the book is anything like 'free'.

JSWolf · 09-28-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andym

Jon

I don't know what Abebooks terms and conditions are like but if they are like Amazon, there is a set amount for postage and this is charged per item. In the case of many paperbacks you can still make money even if you charge nothing or even have a negative price. That doesn't of course mean the book is anything like 'free'.

The shipping doesn't seem to be set as I can see different shipping rates for the same book in the USA.

jasonkchapman · 09-28-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The shipping doesn't seem to be set as I can see different shipping rates for the same book in the USA.

ABE books is more like a used book collective. It's closer to Amazon Marketplace than Amazon. I've gotten some really nice rare-book and collectible buys through ABE sellers. Shipping charge is up to the seller.

NatCh · 09-28-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Duntemann

There's an additional bizarre (and off-topic for Mobileread) phenomenon called "mega-listers" that may possibly be affecting used pbook prices. People who are interested in used pbookselling should Google on the term. I'm still not entirely sure what to believe or how it even works, but rare book sellers are very concerned.

Reading is always on-topic for the site!

It does seem to me to be a very disturbing practice. Here's a good explanation I found of it: http://www.ioba.org/newsletter/archi...9/article1.php (the real explanation of the practice starts in paragraph 9)

JSWolf · 09-28-2007, 01:22 PM

So that's why there are $26 books out there for a book that $7.99 list and still in print.

HarryT · 09-30-2007, 05:42 AM

I really don't see the problem. Who would be stupid enough to buy an $8 for $26? If they do, they really have only themselves to blame.

NatCh · 10-01-2007, 12:31 PM

The article goes into that aspect way toward the end:

One problem is that it's getting to the point that the legitimate sellers are getting drowned in the massive quantities of fake listers that they can't be found by real buyers, leaving buyers thinking they can only buy the $25 one.

Another is that if a bunch of people list a truly rare book a bunch of times each, it makes it appear that there are scores of them available, when there may be only one (assuming it hasn't already been sold, but not yet removed from the mega-lists).

09-27-2007, 10:10 PM	#1
Jeff Duntemann Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 2434999 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Device: Samsung Galaxy Tab S3; also Moto G Stylus phone	EBook Problem: PBooks are Almost Free I haven't seen anybody bring this up yet on Mobileread, but it's an insight I had recently: Ebooks may in part be having trouble getting traction with avid readers simply because pbooks are so easy to find and so cheap. Here's what I mean: Pick a pbook that you like, go to ABE Books, and look for used copies. Depending on the sorts of things you favor, you'll probably find more than one copy, and perhaps hundreds. More to the point, you will often see prices under the magic $5 price point cited as the "natural" price for ebooks, and sometimes down as low as a dollar--for hardbacks as well as MM paperbacks. For example, look up one of my all-time favorite authors, John Cornwell, author of Hitler's Pope. Almost all of his books can be had in hardcover for $1 plus shipping. Books that are currently in print and in stores may go for as much as $5, but once a book goes out of print, the price plummets. And these are not always beat-to-hell copies, either. Many of them are "remainders," which are basically unused books dumped by publishers at manufacturing cost or less, just to get them out of inventory. ABE Books has a minimum price of $1, but on Amazon you'll find the "penny sellers" who basically give you the book for free but mark up shipping a little to survive. Cornwell's 1991 book The Hiding Places of God can be had on Amazon for a penny plus $3.99. It sounds impossible, but these people must be making it work somehow, because there are a lot of them. Sure, if you're impatient and want the book Right Now an immediate ebook-style download is compelling, but I think most avid readers keep a "nightstand pile" of pbooks to pull from, and keep the pile fed so they're never without something new. (I certainly do this!) I haven't seen it mentioned much in the press, but my experience is that publishers do grumble about very slightly used pbook copies of their frontlist titles selling for 25% (or less) of cover online. That being the case, one can almost understand their reluctance to price ebook editions at 20%-25% of cover, as most pundits suggest that they do. They're afraid of training people to think that Books Cost Five Bucks, as the nearly frictionless used book market is already teaching them. All the more reason to make ebook editions available, so publishers get that $5 rather than used booksellers, but (especially with big publishers) it's going to be a long climb.

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09-27-2007, 11:36 PM	#2
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,986 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I just checked ABE Books for the new J. M. Dillard Star Trek book Resistance and I just saw a price of $26.41 with free shipping for a book that lists for $7.99. The cheapest prince for this book is $8.62 including shipping. Simon & Schuster list the ebook for a price of $4.54 and you can get it in MS Reader format. So what this proves is for new books, ebooks can be cheaper.

09-27-2007, 11:51 PM	#3
Jeff Duntemann Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 2434999 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Device: Samsung Galaxy Tab S3; also Moto G Stylus phone	Heh! Then somebody is finally getting it! Actually, if experience is any guide, those used copy prices will drop like a stone after the book has been out for awhile. I guess my problem is that I almost never buy a book when it first comes out. There's an additional bizarre (and off-topic for Mobileread) phenomenon called "mega-listers" that may possibly be affecting used pbook prices. People who are interested in used pbookselling should Google on the term. I'm still not entirely sure what to believe or how it even works, but rare book sellers are very concerned.

09-28-2007, 08:24 AM	#4
andym Groupie Posts: 189 Karma: 793 Join Date: Oct 2006	John I don't know what Abebooks terms and conditions are like but if they are like Amazon, there is a set amount for postage and this is charged per item. In the case of many paperbacks you can still make money even if you charge nothing or even have a negative price. That doesn't of course mean the book is anything like 'free'.

09-28-2007, 01:22 PM	#8
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,986 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	So that's why there are $26 books out there for a book that $7.99 list and still in print.

09-30-2007, 05:42 AM	#9
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I really don't see the problem. Who would be stupid enough to buy an $8 for $26? If they do, they really have only themselves to blame.

10-01-2007, 12:31 PM	#10
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	The article goes into that aspect way toward the end: One problem is that it's getting to the point that the legitimate sellers are getting drowned in the massive quantities of fake listers that they can't be found by real buyers, leaving buyers thinking they can only buy the $25 one. Another is that if a bunch of people list a truly rare book a bunch of times each, it makes it appear that there are scores of them available, when there may be only one (assuming it hasn't already been sold, but not yet removed from the mega-lists).

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