Looking for some advice on starting an ebook library

[yunti]

I have been trying to get into ebooks for a while now but it's seems limited software and DRM have been getting in the way.

I did previously have an Iliad but got rid of that because the software was so broken.

For me reading ebooks must have:
- the ability to look up words with a built in dictionary
- takes notes/annotations, highlights etc...
- be able to read those notes etc... while reading ebooks on different devices.
- be able to purchase ebooks from any ebook store and use it on whatever device I'm using and have the above features.

I'm currently using an ipad (and may purchase an ebook reader in the future).

There is quite a lot of good software on the ipad which has most of these features apart from being able to load DRM ebooks (unless purchased from that particular app). Only txtr seemed to be able to load DRM ebooks but it has virtually no features (no dictionary, notes etc...)

So it looks like the only option I seem to have is to purchase ebooks strip them of DRM and then use something like ibooks. However is there a standardised note format? What happens when I try to sync notes and see those on any future ebook reader I buy. Is there a way to do this as this is particularly important for me?

Also I had started buying a couple of books from the Kindle book store but these seem to be in a different format. I have now purchased a few from Kobo which seem to be in the Adobe DRM epub format, so presumably stripping the DRM means I can use it as I wish?
Are there any other good ebook stores that will also work? Any others like Kindle/Amazon that I should avoid?

Thanks for any help.

[queentess]

There is no standard at all with ebooks. No standard note-taking format, no standard file type. You can only purchase from stores that sell the format type your ereader can manage (though with an iPad, there are apps for all the major stores).

I'm a little confused on why you would purchase from Kobo and strip DRM, but avoid Amazon? Is there a particular app you're using that doesn't read the mobi format?

[abookreader]

basically to accomplish everything you desire you are going to have

1. Find a reader app that meets your needs
2. Learn how to strip all types of drm and then convert to the format desired by your app or device. The only DRM I'm aware of that isn't able to be removed is what you purchase via the iBooks store. So I would say the only thing you really need to avoid is the iBooks store.

I'll add to your list
3. I want my eBook purchases to be portable to whatever devices I own in the future.

It really isn't that difficult. Many here on this board utilize eBooks in exactly this manner. Check out the Calibre forum for advice on eBook library management and file conversion.

[James_Wilde]

Sounds to me like you've got the best deal you're going to get with your iPad. To be sure you'll have to recharge it every day, which you wouldn't with an ebook reader, but I assume you can, as Queen Tess says, get apps that will read all necessary formats, and I don't think there are many ebook readers that can handle both epub and mobi. And you've got a better reader of pdfs than any ebook reader.

I second the call to go over to the calibre forum and get yourself a copy of that. With calibre you can convert just about everything you're likely to get to a standard format, say, epub or, if you get a kindle, mobi. You'll just have to live with the moral dilemma of ripping off any DRM you might accumulate along the way, but most people don't seem to have too many qualms of conscience over that when they've bought the book.

[yunti]

Thanks for your replies.

Originally Posted by queentess

There is no standard at all with ebooks. No standard note-taking format, no standard file type. You can only purchase from stores that sell the format type your ereader can manage (though with an iPad, there are apps for all the major stores).

I'm a little confused on why you would purchase from Kobo and strip DRM, but avoid Amazon? Is there a particular app you're using that doesn't read the mobi format?

I thought epub was pretty much the standard apart from Amazon seem to be ignoring it (which I suppose stops it being a standard). I'm not as keen buying from Amazon as it's a proprietary format which sometimes seems to occasionaly have formatting issues converting to an epub.


It seems there are 2 apps for the ipad that can load DRMed book, bluefire and txtr, which this could avoid the hassle of striping DRM. However although bluefire looks promising it doesn't seem to be there yet and missing simple features like inbuilt dictionary.

I think using Calibre with ibooks and given that most ebook stores seem to use Adobe DRM epubs will be the best option. (will need to remove drm though unfortunately). This will have the benefit of making it work with future devices - as abookreader mentioned which is definitely important.

This issue is around making sure the notes don't disappear should I stop using an apple device and start using something else. It's good that the ipad/iphone sync notes and notes can be exported via email (but not highlights) but that's really dissapointing that there isn't a standard notes format (perhaps as part of the epub specification). I'm not keen on the idea of annotating a hundred books only to find this becomes useless a year or two down the line.

Does any ereader (or software) have transferable notes so they can be used annotated on pc/browser etc... as well as on an ereader?

(Also I find the ipad battery lasts amazingly well - as long as my iliad but that was a broken beta product so doesn't say too much. )

Anyway I found lots of good information on these forums which has been a great help. Notes/annotations is the only sticking point

[queentess]

Originally Posted by yunti

I thought epub was pretty much the standard apart from Amazon seem to be ignoring it (which I suppose stops it being a standard). I'm not as keen buying from Amazon as it's a proprietary format which sometimes seems to occasionaly have formatting issues converting to an epub.

I find it really amazing the number of newbies that stumble in here and proclaim they will never use Amazon because they are proprietary. Amazon is not the only proprietary vendor. But if you're going to strip drm, there's really no reason to avoid a particular vendor (except iBooks).

Originally Posted by yunti

It seems there are 2 apps for the ipad that can load DRMed book, bluefire and txtr, which this could avoid the hassle of striping DRM. However although bluefire looks promising it doesn't seem to be there yet and missing simple features like inbuilt dictionary.

Ah, but what flavor of DRM do they read? There is not just one kind. Amazon has it, B&N has it, Borders has it, iBooks has it...

Originally Posted by yunti

I think using Calibre with ibooks and given that most ebook stores seem to use Adobe DRM epubs will be the best option. (will need to remove drm though unfortunately). This will have the benefit of making it work with future devices - as abookreader mentioned which is definitely important.

iBooks DRM hasn't been cracked. And I can't be sure, but I really doubt it's easy to use Calibre with iBooks. Apple likes it's walled garden.

Originally Posted by yunti

(Also I find the ipad battery lasts amazingly well - as long as my iliad but that was a broken beta product so doesn't say too much. )

I charge my Kindle about once a month, and that's with heavy reading. On the other hand, I charge my iTouch every other day, and that's with relatively light use.

Originally Posted by yunti

Anyway I found lots of good information on these forums which has been a great help. Notes/annotations is the only sticking point

Unfortunately, the only note-taking format I know of that stays with the book file is if you annotate a PDF... which isn't a good ebook format, and I'm not sure you can even annotate on a PDF using an iPad or other ereader.

[yunti]

Originally Posted by queentess

I find it really amazing the number of newbies that stumble in here and proclaim they will never use Amazon because they are proprietary. Amazon is not the only proprietary vendor. But if you're going to strip drm, there's really no reason to avoid a particular vendor (except iBooks).
.

Relax, I'm not proclaiming anything. I only have a tendency not to use Amazon as they use a different format which occasionally has issues converting to epub (although I hear this is often minor). They do however have ebooks which aren't available anywhere else, although this seems to be less and less these days. So I will probably still use them from time to time.

Originally Posted by queentess

Ah, but what flavor of DRM do they read? There is not just one kind. Amazon has it, B&N has it, Borders has it, iBooks has it...

Adobe DE DRM. Which apart from a couple of the main bookstores, Amazon, ibooks, (and B&N seems to use Adobe ereader DRM) most others seemt to use this. Anyway ebooks with DRM unfortunately don't have the flexibility I need so I probably won't use this route unfortunately.

Originally Posted by queentess

iBooks DRM hasn't been cracked. And I can't be sure, but I really doubt it's easy to use Calibre with iBooks. Apple likes it's walled garden.

Calibre can sync to ibooks via itunes sync, but thanks I wasn't aware of ibooks DRM not being cracked. I will avoid because of this.

Originally Posted by queentess

Unfortunately, the only note-taking format I know of that stays with the book file is if you annotate a PDF... which isn't a good ebook format, and I'm not sure you can even annotate on a PDF using an iPad or other ereader.

Hmm I thought that might be the case, which is a shame. Are there any plans to extend the epub format to include embedded annotations? (this seems like a big oversight - although it depends on what they orginally envisioned the format to be used for).
There are a few iPad apps which can annotate PDF's and these annotations can be synced so they can continue to be annotated on the PC etc... This works well, but as you mentioned PDF isn't really an ebook format.

[crich70]

I'd start with the public domain classics, many of which are right here at Mobileread in several different formats.

[artig]

Originally Posted by queentess

I find it really amazing the number of newbies that stumble in here and proclaim they will never use Amazon because they are proprietary. Amazon is not the only proprietary vendor. But if you're going to strip drm, there's really no reason to avoid a particular vendor (except iBooks).

That depends on which format they stumble on first. The first books I got from Amazon were freebies, in Topaz format. They looked really terrible on the Kindle for PC reader, and removing DRM and converting them to another format was a lesson in frustration. If I'd actually paid money for the first Topaz books I would probably have proclaimed as well that I'd never use Amazon.

[Hatgirl]

It is an interesting question though, isn't it. How does one start building an ebook library? This is what I have been recommending to my friends who have recently purchased eReaders:

1. Decide on a core format
The two main formats at the moment are ePub and Mobi. If you intend to get a Kindle, choose mobi as your default format, other than that pick ePub.

2. Decide how you want to store and organise your ebooks
It may not seem like a big deal now, when you have one or two ebooks downloaded onto your desktop, but you'll be surprised at how fast you get confused about what you already have! And if you damage your eReader or choose to upgrade, you'll want to be able to move them to your new device easily. So, you can leave them "in the cloud" with Amazon, let the Adobe ADE software catalog them, keep back up copies on an USB Flash Drive... personally, I catalog my ebooks with Calibre and back them up on Dropbox.

3. Explore the Public Domain ebooks at MobileRead, and download the ones you are interested in.
There's no point in paying $5 for a badly formatted, DRM-encrypted Public Domain work. And while there are a number of sites making PD work available for free, MobileRead versions are almost always the best.

4. Poke about the internet for (legal) freebies
Epubbooks.com, Feedbooks, Manybooks have more public domain ebooks, and some ebooks placed there by the authors themselves. And pop along to your favourite authors' sites. It's surprising how many of them have made freebies available.

5. Look for authors you like at ebookstores that sells DRM-free ebooks.
The advantage of checking places like Smashwords, Fictionwise (multiformat), Baen, Samhain etc. is that not only do you not have to bother making a decision about To-Strip-Or-Not-To-Strip, but most of these sites a) store your purchases on virtual bookshelf and b) make them available to in multiple formats. So if a few years down the line you smack yourself on the forehead and realise you actually prefer a different format, if the site is still up and running you can just bulk download your previous purchases in your new prefered format.

6. NOW take a look at the Big Stores
If you want to, I mean. 'cos your ebook collection is going to be pretty massive at this point



As for your specific queries

For me reading ebooks must have:
- the ability to look up words with a built in dictionary
The dictionary built into the ebook or the reading device? Because I know both Kindle and Sony Readers have dictionary support, but AFAIK the current ebook formats don't allow for attached dictionary files.

- takes notes/annotations, highlights etc...
again, that's more a hardware query

- be able to read those notes etc... while reading ebooks on different devices.
As in, if you switch from reading your ebook on, say, a Sony Reader to an Iliad? AFAIK this is not possible as the format in which notes are stored is not standardised from one manufacturing company to another.

- be able to purchase ebooks from any ebook store and use it on whatever device I'm using and have the above features.
You, me, and everybody on this site wants this *sigh*

[Anke Wehner]

Originally Posted by yunti

Does any ereader (or software) have transferable notes so they can be used annotated on pc/browser etc... as well as on an ereader?

The Sony PRS-650 lets you do something like that. You can add highlights, annotations etc. either on the reader or in the Sony Reader Library software, and sync between them. You can also export highlights and annotations; it will give you one RTF file with the page number, date, the highlighted text and, if applicable, the annotation added to it.

But, yeah, if you switch readers, you'd lose the annotations, and there isn't even any guarantee Sony readers will keep the same format in the next generation.
Plus, I lost my annotations twice already on accident (and because I don't synch often). It kind of seems like they are deleted when you insert an SD card, is my best guess.

The lack of standardised annotation format in epubs is rather sad.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by yunti

Does any ereader (or software) have transferable notes so they can be used annotated on pc/browser etc... as well as on an ereader?

I don't know of anything that does exactly that, but the Kindle will put all notes, bookmarks and highlights into a text file that can be copied off the Kindle onto your PC. Your notes & highlights will also be available at https://kindle.amazon.com/

[yunti]

Thanks for the posts very helpful.

For the moment I'm using Calibre to organise my library.

I typically read on the ipad and I transfer books into ibooks using Calibre which is probably the best looking reader. From there I can annotate and take notes as needed as these sync to my iphone too. However like the notes solutions mentioned above for Kindle and Sony, these won't transfer out of the apple ecosystem unfortunately, which is the weakest thing with this setup.

I tend to purchase books from Kobo which for almost all the books I can find in ebook format seems to be about the cheapest (although many are exactly the same price as other book stores). I can remove the DRM via Calibre plugins and then read the ebook within ibooks. Most of the other reader software on the ipad doesn't support many features with imported books, but ibooks seems to work well and I can use dictionary, notes etc.. with imported books which is key.

The problem I've quickly come across in building an ebook library is, that although there is lots of content, there is still a huge %age of books that aren't in ebook format yet. This is a problem if you are looking for specific books rather than just things to read. I'm probably going to have to end up getting/building a book scanner.

Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the setup I have, but it's worrying that there is no standard for notes. Ideally the epub standard needs to be extended to include notes so that these can be shared across all devices.

One day......