kobo for sale - the right thing?

[kiwipippa]

This is a link to a kobo original for sale on New Zealand's equivalent of ebay. I have asked a question regarding the keeping of purchased books once the sale goes through, as has another person - the answer was interesting!

If you look at the current bid you will see that it is already higher than a new kobo wifi - so the purchaser is bidding for the books (or is a bit stupid!). Some of the books look a bit sus to me. (eg Harry Potter). If legal, this trader has spent heaps on ebooks in a very short time. Trademe takes piracy seriously - not sure if I should just mind my own business and let the buyer beware, or whether I should report the listing. Am I being overly suspicious? What do others think?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=345105788

[Solicitous]

I didn't think that Harry Potter was in ebook format, didn't JK Rowling say no to having the series sold as ebooks? If so then who is to say the other titles are legit? Plus, when you buy an ebook (as is my understanding) you are buying the right to read the ebook an unlimited number of times, but that right is not transferable ie: you can't sell it to someone else.

[taming]

It looks like a pirating scheme to me, Kiwipippa.

[djloewen]

-Because of Harry Potter, clearly at least some of those books were downloaded
-The bid price clearly indicates that the seller is profiting from those downloaded books, i.e. profiting from someone else's creative work

I'd definitely report him. In fact, if I could I'd spank him.

[Anthem]

The Harry Potter books are not even available legally. And I would never purchase an ebook reading device while giving consideration to the books that are on the device. Considering our legal obligations in the face of DRM (whether you like it or not) those books purchased legally will be tethered to someone else while those books acquired illegally count for nothing more than unattainable desiderata.

So, yeah go ahead and report it. Could be fun.

[KoboNo]

Will the seller be able to read the books that he/she originally purchased once they're sold with the device? If no, then it is OK. If yes, then is is wrong and the authors and publishers lose, however both the buyer and seller gain.

This brings up another question. If your friend gives you a book that he has paid for and you share the same licence, would you still accept it or would you go and buy your own copy? I certainly would not buy another copy unless I absolutely needed it. There is the absolutely right thing to do and then there's the real world thing to do.

As a follow-up, would you buy your kids their own digital copies of books or have them share one licence? eBooks are a new thing, an there are many questions that will come up in the future, but cheaper and quicker are the real world solutions, no matter what authors and publishers wish.

We're certainly seeing these licencing issues with library books. As some may have read my opinion on this, I am all for giving kids resources through the library. If a kid has to wait for an eBook to be returned (an eBook, not physical book!) then there is certainly something wrong and they will absolutely turn to BitTorrent and other electronic sources to get these free resources from the Internet instead of the library.

[baronrus]

Originally Posted by KoboNo

Will the seller be able to read the books that he/she originally purchased once they're sold with the device? If no, then it is OK. If yes, then is is wrong and the authors and publishers lose, however both the buyer and seller gain.

This brings up another question. If your friend gives you a book that he has paid for and you share the same licence, would you still accept it or would you go and buy your own copy? I certainly would not buy another copy unless I absolutely needed it. There is the absolutely right thing to do and then there's the real world thing to do.

As a follow-up, would you buy your kids their own digital copies of books or have them share one licence? eBooks are a new thing, an there are many questions that will come up in the future, but cheaper and quicker are the real world solutions, no matter what authors and publishers wish.

We're certainly seeing these licencing issues with library books. As some may have read my opinion on this, I am all for giving kids resources through the library. If a kid has to wait for an eBook to be returned (an eBook, not physical book!) then there is certainly something wrong and they will absolutely turn to BitTorrent and other electronic sources to get these free resources from the Internet instead of the library.

My understanding is that if you buy a book from kobo you can read it on as many devices as ADE allows you to have for each copy of aDe? I have bought kobo books and synced them successfully through the kobo program with 2 different kobo's. Is that not proper?

[kiwipippa]

Originally Posted by djloewen

-Because of Harry Potter, clearly at least some of those books were downloaded
-The bid price clearly indicates that the seller is profiting from those downloaded books, i.e. profiting from someone else's creative work

I'd definitely report him. In fact, if I could I'd spank him.

Right, I'll do it. And as Antheum says, could be fun. I'll let you know what the result is.

[kiwipippa]

Originally Posted by KoboNo

This brings up another question. If your friend gives you a book that he has paid for and you share the same licence, would you still accept it or would you go and buy your own copy? I certainly would not buy another copy unless I absolutely needed it. There is the absolutely right thing to do and then there's the real world thing to do.

In this case the seller is clearly profiting from the copied books. Very much the wrong thing to do.

I am going to strike your situation next week, we are buying my Mum a kobo for her birthday. I have the ability to give her my purchased books as I have "liberated" them all and use calibre to add covers etc. But is it the right thing to do? The 100 free books will keep her going for a while while I ponder the ethics....

Is giving my mum purchased books any different than the seller trying to flog off this kobo with pirated books? Probably not...

[taming]

Another alternative is to share your account with her as one of the 6 devices you can have registered. Buying books and syncing becomes tricky, and the device actually belongs to you, not her.

I say tricky only because when you share your account, whoever you share it with can buy using your credit card and their activities in terms of syncing can result it actions on your own reader when you sync--and vice versa. My husband and I share one Kobo account and the same ADE account. I load my books sideways through Calibre and he uses sync. Sharing a credit card is a non-issue.

[kiwipippa]

Wow, that was quick. I reported the listing at 7am, it's now 7:40am and the listing for the kobo has been removed from Trademe. Here's what they said:

The Trade Me Customer Support Team have reviewed the listing and has deemed that it is in breach of our terms and conditions. As a result the listing has been removed from the site.

Thank you for bringing this listing to our attention and making Trade Me a better place to buy and sell.

Well done Trademe for taking this seriously.

[La Coccinelle]

Originally Posted by KoboNo

As some may have read my opinion on this, I am all for giving kids resources through the library. If a kid has to wait for an eBook to be returned (an eBook, not physical book!) then there is certainly something wrong and they will absolutely turn to BitTorrent and other electronic sources to get these free resources from the Internet instead of the library.

If they do, then they need some education about what they're doing and how it's against the law. Just because some stupid kid will go and download a book because they can't get instant gratification from the library doesn't mean we should ignore it because it's easier to do so. Their actions affect authors and publishers. Do we want books at all? Because I can imagine that, eventually, some publishers will drop some really great authors because their books aren't selling (even though they're being distributed like crazy online), and/or authors are going to get so fed up that they'll just stop writing altogether. If you can't make a living at it, it's not going to be worth it for some.

I've had to wait weeks (and even months) for physical copies of books at the library. That doesn't make me go to Chapters and smuggle a physical copy out under my jacket.

Yes, the licensing and piracy issues are a problem. But the solution isn't giving in to the criminals and letting them do whatever they want!

[ltr]

Originally Posted by La Coccinelle

If they do, then they need some education about what they're doing and how it's against the law. Just because some stupid kid will go and download a book because they can't get instant gratification from the library doesn't mean we should ignore it because it's easier to do so. Their actions affect authors and publishers. Do we want books at all? Because I can imagine that, eventually, some publishers will drop some really great authors because their books aren't selling (even though they're being distributed like crazy online), and/or authors are going to get so fed up that they'll just stop writing altogether. If you can't make a living at it, it's not going to be worth it for some.

I've had to wait weeks (and even months) for physical copies of books at the library. That doesn't make me go to Chapters and smuggle a physical copy out under my jacket.

Yes, the licensing and piracy issues are a problem. But the solution isn't giving in to the criminals and letting them do whatever they want!

Completely agree. Illegal file sharing has already ruined the music industry, I sure wouldn't want authors to throw in the towel because they can't make a buck on their books. There has to be a way to curb illegal distribution on-line that doesn't make it annoying for those who pay.

ltr

[djloewen]

In general I support sharing, and I strongly disagree with the constant association of the word "illigal" with "download". My wife and I buy our own books, but if she (or someone else, say a friend) wanted to read one that I had bought, I'd be 100% fine with just giving her a DRM-free copy. The issue is very complex and I won't go into my reasoning here, but I will say that I'm as well-versed as anyone can be (I'm a musician myself, I've studied entertainment law and I've written papers on the subject of digital-era copyright).

Where I draw a big fat line is when someone makes a profit off of it. If you want to download a movie, go for it. If you start selling burned copies of it at a mall, don't ever let me catch you.

[46jimbo]

Is giving my mum purchased books any different than the seller trying to flog off this kobo with pirated books? Probably not...

I disagree. We should be able to do exactly the same as what we do with the physical paper book. That means that I can lend it to you, give it to my mother or sell it in a garage sale. But only one time. And I should also delete my copy of the book.

Is this ethical?