Does Borders have the control that Amazon exerts?

KenJackson · 10-23-2010, 01:02 PM

There was a story a while back that Amazon sold an ebook that later caused a copyright problem, so they deleted the book from everyone's Kindle that had purchased it and refunded their money. (If I remember right, the book was Animal Farm.)

The problem is the control. Yes, they refunded the money, but the very fact that they can reach into a Kindle and delete something means that I won't buy a Kindle under any circumstances.

But what about Border's Kobo?

They are now wifi enabled. Have they given themselves the ability to reach into everyone's Kobo and delete something? How much control do they have?

Does anyone know?

carld · 10-23-2010, 01:12 PM

Someone with a Kobo would need to check their EULA to tell you. The potential is certainly there as long as there's a live connection.

dmacmart · 10-23-2010, 02:44 PM

Doesn't answer the exact question, but here is some of Kobo's policy:
http://blog.kobobooks.com/2010/10/22...open-platform/

Here's an excerpt:
Rest assured that Kobo safely backs up and stores all your books in one central location, regardless of where you registered, where you purchased your books, or what device you’re using (computer, eReader, Blackberry, iPhone or iPad). Your books will follow you wherever you go, without needing a trail of breadcrumbs (virtual or otherwise) to find your way back.

mldavis2 · 10-23-2010, 02:58 PM

This is a good argument for keeping a copy of your book downloads on your computer before you sync with your eReader. They may be able to block it on your Kindle, but they can't block it on your computer.

KenJackson · 10-23-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmacmart

Doesn't answer the exact question, but here is some of Kobo's policy:
http://blog.kobobooks.com/2010/10/22...open-platform/

Here's an excerpt:
Rest assured that Kobo safely backs up and stores all your books in one central location, regardless of where you registered, where you purchased your books, or what device you’re using (computer, eReader, Blackberry, iPhone or iPad). Your books will follow you wherever you go, without needing a trail of breadcrumbs (virtual or otherwise) to find your way back.

Which way does that answer it?

That, yes they obviously have control over your content?
Or, no they are obviously interested in your safety, so we can trust them to never do anything bad?

dmacmart · 10-23-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenJackson

Which way does that answer it?

That, yes they obviously have control over your content?
Or, no they are obviously interested in your safety, so we can trust them to never do anything bad?

Yeah OK I guess that wasn't the exact one I was looking for. Here is their "bill of rights".
http://blog.kobobooks.com/2010/09/17...sbillofrights/
It's the line We have always believed that your books are your books that I was thinking of.

But maybe it's not policy that's important here, it's what mldavis2 said. Keep a copy of all books on your computer (or on DVD or whatever) and they can't access it.

doreenjoy · 10-23-2010, 05:21 PM

Just for the record, the book Amazon deleted was Nineteen Eighty-Four.

JeremyR · 10-23-2010, 07:51 PM

Also Harry Potter.

See the thing with Amazon, is they have a book publishing service where anyone can make an account and publish anything.

So people were literally putting up pirated copies of books and selling them.

Amazon was in a no win situation. They keep them and they can get sued for copyright infringement, or they delete them and get people angry at them.

tubemonkey · 10-23-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Amazon was in a no win situation. They keep them and they can get sued for copyright infringement, or they delete them and get people angry at them.

True, but Amazon handled it poorly and were justly criticized for it. What they should've done was to inform the people who downloaded the books in question about the situation and then switched those books with legitimate versions.

ProfCrash · 10-26-2010, 10:43 AM

All of the book stores that archive books for you have the ability to delete a book from their archive.

Amazon returned the book to people who wanted it back. Everyone affected received at leas tone gift certificate for a book of their choice. The folks who did not want the book returned received a second gift certificate for a book for their choice. Jeff Bezos posted an apology for Amazon's actions which is still available on Amazon's Kindle discussion boards.

Since then I have received a decent number of emails from Amazon telling me that I book that I had purchased had been resubmitted with errors corrected. Amazon gives me the option of getting the new copy of the book if I want it. The downside is that taking the new copy would wipe out notes and bookmarks and the like. I have accepted the offer the 8-9 times I have received it.

Amazon learned that it cannot remove books from peoples devices. Users of all devices learned that it is best to download copies of their books to their desktop just incase a bookstore is dumb enough to make the same mistake. MobileReference, and all Publishers, learned that they need to be careful to make sure that they enter the correct country locations before uploading a book.

tubemonkey · 10-26-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

MobileReference, and all Publishers, learned that they need to be careful to make sure that they enter the correct country locations before uploading a book.

Was that the problem - wrong country codes? For instance, the books involved in this were written by George Orwell and his works are in the public domain in Australia, but not in the United States.

ProfCrash · 10-26-2010, 11:45 AM

Wrong country codes. 1984 was out of copyright in Australia but not the US and they screwed that up. At least, I think it was Australia.

tubemonkey · 10-26-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Wrong country codes. 1984 was out of copyright in Australia but not the US and they screwed that up. At least, I think it was Australia.

Thanks. In Australia, the copyright for authors who died before 1955 has expired, so their works are public domain. Orwell died in 1950.

10-23-2010, 01:02 PM	#1
KenJackson Addict Posts: 256 Karma: 112042 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Maryland, USA Device: Sony PRS-650	Does Borders have the control that Amazon exerts? There was a story a while back that Amazon sold an ebook that later caused a copyright problem, so they deleted the book from everyone's Kindle that had purchased it and refunded their money. (If I remember right, the book was Animal Farm.) The problem is the control. Yes, they refunded the money, but the very fact that they can reach into a Kindle and delete something means that I won't buy a Kindle under any circumstances. But what about Border's Kobo? They are now wifi enabled. Have they given themselves the ability to reach into everyone's Kobo and delete something? How much control do they have? Does anyone know?

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10-23-2010, 01:12 PM	#2
carld Wizard Posts: 2,698 Karma: 4748723 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Someone with a Kobo would need to check their EULA to tell you. The potential is certainly there as long as there's a live connection.

10-23-2010, 02:44 PM	#3
dmacmart Fanatic Posts: 534 Karma: 696908 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ottawa Canada Device: Kobo Mini, Glo, Arc, H2O, iPhone, iPad 2, (husband)Touch	Doesn't answer the exact question, but here is some of Kobo's policy: http://blog.kobobooks.com/2010/10/22...open-platform/ Here's an excerpt: Rest assured that Kobo safely backs up and stores all your books in one central location, regardless of where you registered, where you purchased your books, or what device you’re using (computer, eReader, Blackberry, iPhone or iPad). Your books will follow you wherever you go, without needing a trail of breadcrumbs (virtual or otherwise) to find your way back.

10-23-2010, 02:58 PM	#4
mldavis2 Coffee Nut Posts: 410 Karma: 298350 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Missouri Device: Kindle 3; K4PC; Calibre	This is a good argument for keeping a copy of your book downloads on your computer before you sync with your eReader. They may be able to block it on your Kindle, but they can't block it on your computer.

10-23-2010, 05:21 PM	#7
doreenjoy 01000100 01001010 Posts: 1,889 Karma: 2400000 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Polyamorous	Just for the record, the book Amazon deleted was Nineteen Eighty-Four.

10-23-2010, 07:51 PM	#8
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	Also Harry Potter. See the thing with Amazon, is they have a book publishing service where anyone can make an account and publish anything. So people were literally putting up pirated copies of books and selling them. Amazon was in a no win situation. They keep them and they can get sued for copyright infringement, or they delete them and get people angry at them.

10-26-2010, 10:43 AM	#10
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	All of the book stores that archive books for you have the ability to delete a book from their archive. Amazon returned the book to people who wanted it back. Everyone affected received at leas tone gift certificate for a book of their choice. The folks who did not want the book returned received a second gift certificate for a book for their choice. Jeff Bezos posted an apology for Amazon's actions which is still available on Amazon's Kindle discussion boards. Since then I have received a decent number of emails from Amazon telling me that I book that I had purchased had been resubmitted with errors corrected. Amazon gives me the option of getting the new copy of the book if I want it. The downside is that taking the new copy would wipe out notes and bookmarks and the like. I have accepted the offer the 8-9 times I have received it. Amazon learned that it cannot remove books from peoples devices. Users of all devices learned that it is best to download copies of their books to their desktop just incase a bookstore is dumb enough to make the same mistake. MobileReference, and all Publishers, learned that they need to be careful to make sure that they enter the correct country locations before uploading a book.

10-26-2010, 11:45 AM	#12
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	Wrong country codes. 1984 was out of copyright in Australia but not the US and they screwed that up. At least, I think it was Australia.

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