You are not the owner of Amazon Ebooks

Hi,
Greetings to all,
Is it true that you are not the owner of the eBooks bought from Amazon?
If it's true, then it's totally Ludicrous.

[avantman42]

Yes, it's true. You buy a licence, in much the same way you do with software.

I believe the same is true at all ebook vendors.

[HarryT]

Pretty much all digital content, in fact, not just books. You buy a licence, not the actual product.

Of course, pretty much the same is true with paper books, too. You're buying the physical media - the paper, ink, and glue. You don't own the content of the book.

Originally Posted by avantman42

Yes, it's true. You buy a licence, in much the same way you do with software.

I believe the same is true at all ebook vendors.

But I think you own the eBooks bought in the standard EPUB format, That's why you can read them on any Reader/ PC /tablet

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by arsingh1

But I think you own the eBooks bought in the standard EPUB format, That's why you can read them on any Reader/ PC /tablet

No. All ebooks are licensed, not sold. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what devices they can be read on. It's absolutely not unique to Amazon. Read the "terms and conditions" of any ebookstore.

[crossi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No. All ebooks are licensed, not sold. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what devices they can be read on. It's absolutely not unique to Amazon. Read the "terms and conditions" of any ebookstore.

Even Baen? All their books are sold without DRM so I expect when they say they are selling you the book they really intend to sell it to you. Just not the copyright to pass on additional copies.

In any case from the help of my good friend Alf I DO own my ebooks.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by crossi

Even Baen? All their books are sold without DRM so I expect when they say they are selling you the book they really intend to sell it to you. Just not the copyright to pass on additional copies.

Even Baen. EVERY bookstore. Ask them if you don't believe me .

In any case from the help of my good friend Alf I DO own my ebooks.

No, you own a licence. You can't resell ebooks for that reason. Legal ownership has absolutely nothing to do with DRM or what devices you can use the book on.

[Skeeve]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No. All ebooks are licensed, not sold. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what devices they can be read on. It's absolutely not unique to Amazon. Read the "terms and conditions" of any ebookstore.

Do you know anyone who really read any "terms and conditions" besides those really interested in legal stuff?

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by crossi

Even Baen? All their books are sold without DRM so I expect when they say they are selling you the book they really intend to sell it to you. Just not the copyright to pass on additional copies.

In any case from the help of my good friend Alf I DO own my ebooks.

I don't know about Baen, but Smashwords don't use DRM, and they sell a licence. From the Smashwords TOS (underlining mine, bold theirs):

10a. Rights of Use.
1. Purchased works: As End User, you acknowledge that all Work furnished by Smashwords is licensed for the use of the End Users of the Site and may not be sublicensed or resold. If you purchase a work, you hold a non-exclusive, non-transferable, and non-distributable right of use. In other words, you are free to enjoy it for your own use, but you are not authorized to share, sell, or distribute the work to others.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by arsingh1

Hi,
Greetings to all,
Is it true that you are not the owner of the eBooks bought from Amazon?
If it's true, then it's totally Ludicrous.

It's true, and same applies to all digital media - music, audio books, video. Although in general Amazon are a bit nicer about the terms than most, and say that you are allowed to let anyone read your ebooks so long as they are on devices authorised to your account.

IMO, the law needs reform in this area. Whether one should have the full resale rights that one has with physically embodied media is debatable. But I think there should certianly be some provision made for bulk transfer of rights in purchased electronic media.

As the law currently stands, all rights to your purchased media terminate on your death.

[latepaul]

You buy a license. There's no reason in theory why that license couldn't include terms to allow the kinds of things that people want when they say they want to "own" the book - resale or other transfer, format-shifting, lending etc - and some of these are included in some vendor's standard terms. The problem is that at the moment the licenses are drawn up by the copyright owner (or a proxy such as a publisher or vendor) and you either get to take or leave it.

If you wanted these rights as a matter of course you'd need some new legislation as pdurrant says.

[Froide]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It's true, and same applies to all digital media - music, audio books, video. Although in general Amazon are a bit nicer about the terms than most, and say that you are allowed to let anyone read your ebooks so long as they are on devices authorised to your account.

IMO, the law needs reform in this area. Whether one should have the full resale rights that one has with physically embodied media is debatable. But I think there should certianly be some provision made for bulk transfer of rights in purchased electronic media.

As the law currently stands, all rights to your purchased media terminate on your death.

That last point is interesting, because it seems difficult to enforce. Presumably, anyone who can access the devices and storage media containing a deceased person's digital content can continue to access that content, indefinitely. Can't they? Or do the content providers, upon learning of a customer's death (e.g., via a notice from the credit company registered to the deceased's media account) revoke the rights? But then, of course, anyone with access to such an account could update said account with another credit card and keep on truckin'. Of course, freebies acquired from sites that don't require a credit card account (e.g., comiXology, Feedbooks, Gutenberg) would never be the wiser.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Froide

That last point is interesting, because it seems unenforceable. Presumably, anyone who can access the devices and storage media containing one's digital content can continue to access that content, indefinitely. Can't they?

They can. The situation where it's an issue is more commonly where someone has died and their heirs have requested companies like Amazon to give them access to the digital content purchased by the dead person. Thus far, such attempts have been unsuccessful.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Froide

That last point is interesting, because it seems difficult to enforce. Presumably, anyone who can access the devices and storage media containing a deceased person's digital content can continue to access that content, indefinitely. Can't they? Or do the content providers, upon learning of a customer's death (e.g., via a notice from the credit company registered to the deceased's media account) revoke the rights? But then, of course, anyone with access to such an account could update said account with another credit card and keep on truckin'. Of course, freebies acquired from sites that don't require a credit card account (e.g., comiXology, Feedbooks, Gutenberg) would never be the wiser.

It's true that one could keep an account going. But this is certainly against the licence terms of many retailers. And none of them will allow splitting or amagamation of accounts. Fifty years down the road, will people be happy keeping track of several different account?

I can't see any good resolution to these problems without legislation.

[DrNefario]

I am aware that I am only buying a license, that's why I won't pay so much.