More constructive postings about the Iliad!

[CommanderROR]

Hi everybody!

I know that this will seem a strange post coming from me, but I've seen a lot of complaints lately and also had a chat with Angel Ancin and I have a feeling that maybe we should try something to make life more pleasant for all involved...

Let's keep the ongoing rants about the shortcomings of the Iliad to a few select threads. Discussions about the "misleading advertising" go into the thread with that name, everything related to legal action, refunds and similar stuff should be kept there. Posts about the battery-life, suspend and similar issues should also be kept in one thread.

The reason for this is, that we are losing valuable posters because all threads are filling up with negative postings that basically revolve around the lack of suspend mode and other features and the bad communications of iRex.

I also don't want to see any "iRex Fanboy" posting that revolve around the line "It does what I want, so it's perfect" since they are just as unproductive as the other kind.


There are lots of good things happening right now, the Iliad is an OpenSource device and people are starting to write software for it, useful software like FBReader, dictionaries, an mp3 player...what will we get once the reflash option is here? How much difference will mobipocket support make for the Iliad? Let's get out of the depression and back up to constructive postings. Don't let iRex get away with the mistakes they made, don't forget what went wrong and why, but try to let the development of the device and the company behind it continue because constant whining will not get the Iliad anywhere and it also won't help the credibility of mobileread.

I'll try my very best to stick to this new "guideline" and I hope you will all do the same. Keep the pressure on iRex up, but keep the whining down and try to avoid repeating the same complaints over and over in all threads.

Thanks.

[Adam B.]

Amen.

Criticism is fine, constructive criticism is best. But rehashing the same points over and over with mixed rants/personal attacks is never helpful. I think at this point we all know what people what from the device, and what it can/will do.

[ali]

Frankly, I don't think being constructive is of any use.

So far, every step forward, and every honest announcement, was the direct result of massive, non-constructive, vulgar, googleable, flames.

Also I think this company actually *does* have a "master plan", but they just don't tell. In october (when I started talking to the gpl-violations.org people), I heard they will release the sources in february. These guys, and the FSF Europe, got involved in debating with them, and "it wasn't all too friendly : (" (quote). And they were talking this "soon" and "the october release" bullshit all the time, and guess what, released the sources in february.

And then they talk about the "custom made viewers", and how they cooperate with the community, and blabla, and today, Matthijs tells us "As soon as our platform is a bit more "developer friendly" we are going to work with the community[...]".

This "form" to fill out or the battery upgrade was obviously just a quick shot to calm the waves. There is nothing behind it. It was a PR stunt, limited to the forum readers (neither announced per mail nor on their website).


All of this forum stuff is the common situation where the users and their complaints get separated from the decision makers by paid PR/CR guys (karel). You think karel's boss listens to stories about "constructive suggestions" from the users? Really?
My experience tells me there are just a few ways to reach the decision maker behind the CR people: Bad PR, like google search appearances (CR guy tells boss: We have PR problems, we loose customers). Making the CR guy's life miserable and repeating arguments (Says to boss: I can't stand it anymore, these guys are outraged and yell at me all day). And legal action (Bypasses the CR).


This company tries to deliver announcements *instead* of real features. They try to satisfy people by PR stuff, by hiding behind a friendly face (who is not making the decisions). The only working way for the users is going on the same level -- PR. Fill the forums. Shout down every PR stunt.


I also think this endless repeating of the same arguments is necessary. It's mostly new users who think everything's fine. They don't read back and don't search for the old arguments. They just see "movement" but can't judge movement speed because they didn't experience the history.
(Plus, TBH, I feel personally offended when somebody tells me all the deficiencies were known before and it's my fault that I didn't google for them -- because I (and you, CommanderROR, and Riocaz) was among the first people to buy one, and it's because of us you can actually google for the deficencies. Someday I'll just flip out and kill one.)

[VillageReader]

So much for a clean thread ;-)

I'm one of the happy campers. I bought it to read books, and it works fine. Of the 'missing' features, I'd like more battery life, but I've had the reader with me on several long flights now, most recently to South Africa, and haven't run out of battery yet. If I can get to SA without running out, I'm sure I can make it to Asia ok.

Mobipocket compatibility is later than anticipated, but I certainly haven't suffered from a lack of things to read.

If I were guessing (and that is what it would be, just a guess) I've read about 20 books, 60 or more magazines, Guardian news digests and any number of other things since I've had the Iliad and been one of the lucky ones as I've had no significant problems.

One interesting thing from the iRex site, in earlier versions of software a lot of bugs were posted, sometimes new things cropping up every day. The most recent bug report from V 2.9 is from five days ago, so it seems the number of bugs is headed the right direction.

And even though I have signed up for the upgraded battery, it is possible I might not do it - having the Iliad back to the factory may just be too much, I'd go through some serious withdrawal.

[Riocaz]

Originally Posted by ali

Frankly, I don't think being constructive is of any use.

Constructive doesn't mean happy and good Ali :-)

Originally Posted by ali

So far, every step forward, and every honest announcement, was the direct result of massive, non-constructive, vulgar, googleable, flames.

Not completely true, but close enough.

Originally Posted by ali

And then they talk about the "custom made viewers", and how they cooperate with the community, and blabla, and today, Matthijs tells us "As soon as our platform is a bit more "developer friendly" we are going to work with the community[...]".

In fairness they already do to a limited extent. Matthijs answered some queries Adam had in the development of the FBReader port for example. As he as done with other queries both here and on the iRex forum.

What I think the Commander is trying to say that everyone posting the negative side in every thread will push those people at iRex who do actively help away and make them less likely to help in the future. And at the end of the day they know the platform the best atm.

Originally Posted by ali

All of this forum stuff is the common situation where the users and their complaints get separated from the decision makers by paid PR/CR guys (karel). You think karel's boss listens to stories about "constructive suggestions" from the users? Really?

I think it's unfair to blame Karel. He has promised answers in the past and delivered.

It has been said (by a member of iRex staff (if memory serves) that the higher-ups in irex are old fashioned and don't patricularly like their employees talking direct to customers.

I have been in that situation (specifically in a company that had been very free flowing with customers which was taken over by a company who then clamped down on it).

Originally Posted by ali

This company tries to deliver announcements *instead* of real features. They try to satisfy people by PR stuff, by hiding behind a friendly face (who is not making the decisions). The only working way for the users is going on the same level -- PR. Fill the forums. Shout down every PR stunt.

I don't think it's fair to determine something as a PR stunt at this point. But I agree with your overall message.

Originally Posted by ali

I also think this endless repeating of the same arguments is necessary. It's mostly new users who think everything's fine. They don't read back and don't search for the old arguments. They just see "movement" but can't judge movement speed because they didn't experience the history.

Again in all fairness CommanderRoR diddn't say "stop it" he said keep it to "a few select threads" rather than people hijacking threads on the positive side of the iLiad (and even I have to admit there are positives).

Originally Posted by ali

(Plus, TBH, I feel personally offended when somebody tells me all the deficiencies were known before and it's my fault that I didn't google for them -- because I (and you, CommanderROR, and Riocaz) was among the first people to buy one, and it's because of us you can actually google for the deficencies. Someday I'll just flip out and kill one.)

I utterly agree. Not to mention people who havn't bothered to read the thread and respond to one post out of context and completely miss the point being made

[yvanleterrible]

Now you're cookin!!!

I own a Sony but I've always liked the Iliad. It was difficult reading your posts because of all the pain involved. I just abandonned the Iliad corner because of that. That and the alien type programming languages spoken throughout.

I was thinking "Geez! are there normal people using the Iliad?"

It seems like such a nice device and I don't even know if there are people using it to actually read!!?!!

Looking forward to reading you all more!

[emkay]

Originally Posted by ali

Frankly, I don't think being constructive is of any use.

Haha. This sums up your philosophy well Ali.

I don't have any problem with people complaining about the failings of the iLiad. I do it myself. But lets have some balance. I find fanboys irritating, but I find those at the opposite end of the spectrum equally irritating...

[NatCh]

Would that be "anti-fanboys," emkay?

[emkay]

Well, that's a nice way to put it

[NatCh]

Ah, good -- I was trying to be nice.

[ali]

Originally Posted by emkay

Haha. This sums up your philosophy well Ali.

Ouch, point taken. I should have said "I don't think being constructive is of any use with iRex"

[NatCh]

You just seem to have a blunt personality, is all, Ali, that is to say that you tend to get right to your point, I don't get the impression that you necessarily mean anything by it.

Unfortunately, not everyone knows that, so sometimes folks read your words more strongly than you meant to write them. It happens to everyone at some point -- anyone who does much writing, anyway.

It's one of the challenges inherent in a written exchange like this. As you've probably noticed, I try to compensate for it with (lots of) smilies ... well, that and being a lot wordier than I'd be if I could count on my tone coming through with the written words. But the simple fact that we all have to struggle with (to one degree or another) is that it's tough sometimes to write something that says just exactly what you mean to the fellow who's reading it.

[joblack]

I don´t know why everybody is complaining about the iLiad.

Ten years ago (I damaged my eyes by reading the stuff on the CRT Monitor ;o) I dreamt of a device like that.

I think iRex is a typical Startup Company - that means it is a little bit chaotic and "over" - enthusiastic ...

I´m missing the 'geek' information, like how to compile your own software, how to setup the environment (cross compiler ...).

[VillageReader]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

I was thinking "Geez! are there normal people using the Iliad?"

Well, I guess that depends on just how loosely you define normal

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

It seems like such a nice device and I don't even know if there are people using it to actually read!!?!!

Well, I polished off The Sorcery Club by Elliot O'Donnell yesterday, so I guess I'd answer yes. And yesterday's guess wasn't too bad on the books - the tally is either 19 or 20 - one I'm not certain of the format - Iliad, Palm or paper. CRS disease strikes again.

[nekokami]

@CommanderROR, thanks.