Seriously thoughtful Electric Cars : BYD

[GeoffC]

Electric Cars

Interesting news (at least for Asia and the US) ...

Chinese auto company BYD plans to bring an all-electric sedan in small numbers to the U.S. next year.

The company chairman Wang Chuanfu told the Wall Street Journal that the company, which is part-owned by investor Warren Buffet, is now gearing up for a U.S. push. It plans to raise money by offering shares in the company in China to help finance the expansion.

BYD plans to offer a few hundred of one of its most advanced cars in the U.S., the five-seat e6, which takes seven to nine hours to fully charge and has a 250-mile range.

Initially, it will make the $40,000 car available to "government agencies, utilities and maybe some celebrities" in a specific region

[Delta Tango]

I get shivers when I hear about Chinese cars...

On the other hand every electric car out there is one step advancement.
Still $40.000 is a lot, even for the European prices... i don't dare to think about how much would it cost here.

[GeoffC]

agreed, every electric car is a one-step advance, which shocks when looked at the targets currently suggested for petrol/diesel cars.
The US target of all new cars averaging about 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016 is way too low by any measure ....

By 2016 I would have thought at least 50 mpg would have been the minimum ....

[Sweetpea]

I wouldn't want a full electric car until there are as many "electric" stations as there are now gas station. Which is why I want a full hybrid... (the Auris will arrive by the end of this year)

[Dusty]

"Electricity doesn't grow on trees"

Many US cities have 'brown outs' when demand is high, now had a few million electric cars to the mix and see what happens.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Dusty

"Electricity doesn't grow on trees"

Many US cities have 'brown outs' when demand is high, now had a few million electric cars to the mix and see what happens.

admitedly there will be downsides, but it has to be recognised that

a: the US target of 35.5 mpg is far too low.

b: we seriously need to find alternatives to oil as fuel, and with earth's population continuing to rise, this has to be something other than bio-fuel.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Dusty

"Electricity doesn't grow on trees"

Many US cities have 'brown outs' when demand is high, now had a few million electric cars to the mix and see what happens.

Do you know how many lights are burning every night that don't have any effect?

Public lighting is the single largest source of local government's greenhouse gas emissions, typically accounting for 30 to 50% of their emissions. There are 1.94 million public lights - one for every 10 Australians - that annually cost $210 million, use 1,035 GWh of electricity and are responsible for 1.15 million tonnes of CO2 emissions.

(http://www.environment.gov.au/archiv...ing/index.html)

I always turn off lights when I'm not in that room. We installed LED lights in those areas where the light will be burning more (such as the hallway, which is in the middle of the house and very dark in the evening) and all our appliances are energy label A or higher (if possible).

I personally think you wouldn't really notice those few million cars.

[icemncmth]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

admitedly there will be downsides, but it has to be recognised that

a: the US target of 35.5 mpg is far too low.

b: we seriously need to find alternatives to oil as fuel, and with earth's population continuing to rise, this has to be something other than bio-fuel.

35.5 is interesting...In the 70's I had a VW Rabbit that would get over 40 mpg and my Honda Civic HF would get close to 50 mpg and today we brag how the Hybrids get 50 mpg!!!...

I have a 2010 Mazda 6 that gets 34 on the HWY and I opted for the smaller engine.

As for the replacement of oil there isn't anything even close to gasoline if you compare its BTU output vs amount used. This has been the problem for a long time. So what you are looking for either hasn't been invented yet or the production of "it" uses more energy to make it than it actually produces.

As for electric vehicles there is one thing people don't think about. Once the demand goes up for electricity than so will the cost. If everyone drove vehicles that ran on water than the price of water would go up.

One last thing..one of the largest uses of oil is making rubber and plastics. How come the price of tires doesn't go up if their is a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico!?

[HarryT]

Even swiching to diesel rather than petrol would help a great deal. My diesel Mini, for example, does 80-odd mpg on the motorway, compared with about 50 mpg for the hybrid Prius. I was surprised to discover recently that diesel cars are apparently illegal in some parts of the US! About a third of cars in Europe are diesel, and the proportion is growing, because they are so much more economical.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

I have my eye on the Nissan Leaf (all-electric), and a rough target date of 2015-2020 to buy one. All automakers are free to provide a competing model for my consideration by that date.

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I wouldn't want a full electric car until there are as many "electric" stations as there are now gas station. Which is why I want a full hybrid... (the Auris will arrive by the end of this year)

There are more. They're called "electric sockets." Besides, "fill-ups" are going to be very different processes when it takes a minimum of 1/2 hour for a significant incremental charge, and 6 hours for a full one. The "gas station" would likely be replaced by the "short stay center," most likely a mall/motel where you can plug in and shop, eat, lounge or sleep while you wait.

But there is an alternative, one I've proposed in the past: An extended-distance power-trailer that you pick up at any gas station charged and waiting, tow behind your vehicle, drive on it until it's dry, then pull into another station and exchange it like a propane tank exchange. This would allow gas-station-fast stop-and-go for travelers, and keeps gas stations in business as the sources for the trailers.

Originally Posted by Dusty

Many US cities have 'brown outs' when demand is high, now had a few million electric cars to the mix and see what happens.

Electric cars will mostly be recharged at night, when demand is low, and will not be as demanding on steady power sources; if your car sits for 9 hours, and only needs 6 to recharge, slowed power input will only add a short time to reach full charge.

Also, nighttime electrics (not to mention plenty of daytime and other systems) can be replaced by much more efficient LED lighting, further saving power for the cars.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I was surprised to discover recently that diesel cars are apparently illegal in some parts of the US!

That wording is a bit harsh and misleading: No state forbids a diesel car to drive through it, nor a resident to buy one. But certain diesel engines (older ones, which produce lung-threatening soot in greater quantities than gas-powered cars) cannot be sold or registered in certain states, and even idling such a vehicle is illegal in some places. It is exclusively an emissions issue, and those vehicles that cannot meet requirements are forbidden to be brought into this country (same goes for 2-stroke engines).

As cleaner-burning diesels are being designed, the federal and state governments are reconsidering the sale and registration bans. Some diesels are sold legally in the U.S. today, though the higher cost of diesel in the U.S. (and remembrance of past performance issues) keeps them low in popularity around here.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Even swiching to diesel rather than petrol would help a great deal. My diesel Mini, for example, does 80-odd mpg on the motorway, compared with about 50 mpg for the hybrid Prius. I was surprised to discover recently that diesel cars are apparently illegal in some parts of the US! About a third of cars in Europe are diesel, and the proportion is growing, because they are so much more economical.

Diesel isn't worth the trouble for me. Diesel likes it best when the engine can run warm, so, on longer distances. The fuel is cheaper, but the taxes on the car are much higher. Here, you have to drive around 40.000km/year before it becomes cheaper. As I do around 20K a year... Which is also why I want that full hybrid, it would be perfect for me, as it performs best when not going on highways.


An I also heard about diesel being illegal in the US... I never understood why, though I heard it had something to do with the oil companies...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

That wording is a bit harsh and misleading: No state forbids a diesel car to drive through it, nor a resident to buy one. But certain diesel engines (older ones, which produce lung-threatening soot in greater quantities than gas-powered cars) cannot be sold or registered in certain states, and even idling such a vehicle is illegal in some places. It is exclusively an emissions issue, and those vehicles that cannot meet requirements are forbidden to be brought into this country (same goes for 2-stroke engines).

As cleaner-burning diesels are being designed, the federal and state governments are reconsidering the sale and registration bans. Some diesels are sold legally in the U.S. today, though the higher cost of diesel in the U.S. (and remembrance of past performance issues) keeps them low in popularity around here.

Thank you for the clarification Steve. Very helpful.

[GeoffC]

diesel/petrol, it still has the same source - and like it or not, it will run out (after it gets too expensive, of course). this is the time that should be spent on designing viable alternatives, instead of burying ones heads in the sand and hoping it'll go away.

significantly reducing air travel would likely extend the life of the diesel/petrol car, because i cannot see any sensible replacement for powering jet/prop aircraft. roll on Zeppelins into our future - slow, maybe.

now is the ideal time to invest for the future....

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

One word: Trains.