Best Datebook Replacement: V5.1a Final

TadW · 07-21-2003, 06:37 AM

Just thought it worthy to mention. My second-to-iSilo-most-favorite app, DateBk, is now out with a new version.

English:
http://www.PimlicoSoftware.com/datebk5-v51a.zip

German:
http://www.PimlicoSoftware.com/datebk5-v51a-german.zip

French:
http://www.PimlicoSoftware.com/datebk5-v51a-french.zip

Just check the about dialog for 's1' after the version number (the first V5.1a release still contained an unfixed bug).

dillon65 · 07-26-2003, 09:53 PM

I second your motion, I'm still not hooked on the floats, but the creator is brilliant!

dillon

radleyp · 07-28-2003, 01:20 PM

The developer, CESD, is, as you put it, "the best", but I don't think that is true of the product itself. And that is for one simple reason: I - and others I know - find the GUI cluttered (especially when you add links and split the display). To me, GUI is very important: the better the screen looks, the easier the application is to use. CESD made a calculated decision which is to use the built-in Datebook display as a basis and add onto it. I think Dateman, and especially Agendus (which is what I use) have a more usable interface. radleyp

Alexander Turcic · 07-29-2003, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by radleyp
I - and others I know - find the GUI cluttered (especially when you add links and split the display). To me, GUI is very important: the better the screen looks, the easier the application is to use.

I agree with your second statement, but not necessarily with your first. I've been using DateBk since 3.x, and have never found its display cluttered (there is a slight learning curve in DateBk, I agree, but thanks to a wonderful manual this can be solved). In fact, to me DateBk feels "lighter" even than its competitor Agendus.

Quote:

...especially Agendus (which is what I use) have a more usable interface. radleyp

I think you're right that Agendus is a wonderful product and a true competitor to DateBk. But for me Iambic products are taboo; their business practices are just way too much against my own philosophy.

radleyp · 07-29-2003, 10:53 AM

I have not had any problems using Datebk - like you, I have used it (off and on) since Datebk3. Yet I feel I must explain why it seems to me cluttered: if you look at the Agendus screen, in both the split day view and the weekly list, you see that the headers are done in such a way that each day or view is sectioned into its own compartment. In Datebk everything runs together. I have experimented using different size fonts and colors, splitting the screen, adding links and notes, and to me (and my wife, who did want me to buy it for her) it becomes unreadable. radleyp

TadW · 07-29-2003, 01:50 PM

DateBk 5.0 just won the Handango Champion Awards 2003 for Best Productivity Application. Not sure if this is any representative....

sfringer · 08-04-2003, 01:33 PM

I need to throw in another vote for DateMan. Having been an old Newton user, I've been familiar with StandAlone Software's work. I looked at DateBk, and while VERY powerful, was very much overkill for me (too steep of a learning curve to justify it's use - and I started my Datebook replacement look on a Palm IIIx with limited memory, so size played a big part).

DateMan covers all the points I'm interested in, and works very well with StandAlone's own SuperNames (the linking of appointments/todos with contacts is great for eay reference to that information).

If you're looking for a fairly robust yet light Datebook replacement, take a look at DateMan.

Just my input.

Scott

radleyp · 08-04-2003, 01:58 PM

Dateman, I believe, is still in beta, where it has been for all the time it has been available for the Palm. It looked interesting, but when I first tried to use it, it had so many bugs, I gave up. Hope it's better now. As I am sure you know, Dateman, like ActionNames, is a reworking of an old Newton program. Ben Gottlieb of HandsHigh gave an interview to PalmGear a few weeks ago in which he promised a "final" version of Dateman very soon. I am not holding my breath. I also tried using SuperNames, but address programs that do not sink their data with the desktop are of no use to me. radleyp

sfringer · 08-04-2003, 02:10 PM

radleyp,
Let's clear a few things up here:

1 - Ben Gottlieb works for StandAlone Software (Shannon Pekary works for Hands High Software)
2 - DateMan v1.08 is not in beta, it is a released product which I use daily. So, you can stop holding your breath (Sure, it has some nits that could be cleaned up, but it is a functional product)
3 - While DateMan for Palm shares a name with a prior Newton product from StanAlone, it is not simply a port. The Newton product is much more feature-rich and is probably not easily reproduced on the Palm's limited OS architecture.
4 - Yes, there is a new release of DateMan (v2) that is under development (as mentioned by Ben in his interview). I don't know when that is planned for release; but I'm certain it will be released.

What data does SuperNames not sync to the destop? It syncs the base information from the AddressDB back to the Palm Desktop. It also syncs its 'custom' information back to the Palm Desktop (though it's stored in a record's note field, so it is not intuitively available within Palm Desktop). Several other Addressbook replacements function in the same manner.

Scott

radleyp · 08-04-2003, 02:41 PM

Sorry about the confusion in companies.

I guess I should have been more precise, and specified that the last time I tried DateMan, it was in beta where, as I recall, it had already been for quite some time.

As to SuperNames and syncing , I think we are saying the same thing, though I may have confused things by the use of the word "data". SuperNames allows for the creation of new fields, none of which sync back to the Palm. Or has that changed? Syncing for me has to be an exact exchange of information. I want the information on the desktop, where I do most of my data entry, to be in the same form as on the handheld. Do you use the desktop for data entry, or do you enter data mostly on the handheld?

radleyp

sfringer · 08-04-2003, 02:54 PM

I don't know how long ago you tried DateMan v1, but it wasn't a beta when I used it on my Palm IIIx (and that's been a few years)

I do everything on the handheld, I've never gotten accustomed to a desktop PIM I figure my handheld is with me constantly, so I do all my work there... can't remember the last time I actually opened Palm Desktop). I don't do too much in the way of fancy data entry within SuperNames that I need on the desktop; so the fact it's maintained within the record's note field is fine. So, I can see where your issues would make that not so convenient. Right now, it seems, unless a user uses Outlook on the desktop there aren't too many options for syncing all the custom data between the handheld and the desktop seamlessly. (And I avoid MS apps whnever possible)

The only desktop entry I do is for Smartlists to Go (formerly ThinkDB) since some of my databases can be quite sizable and contain lots of information.

Scott

radleyp · 08-04-2003, 03:27 PM

Interesting that you mention the syncing of Outlook, which I must use at my office. The "seamless" syncing of Outlook is possible only with applications that do not use the Palm database at all (Beyond Contacts, for example). Thus, you cannot link data within the Palm to the addressbook. Beyond Contacts solves this by introducing new datebook, todo and memo databases, and to me that's just a nightmare. So I just use the "general" fields in outlook, plus the four user fields, which correspond to the four custom fields in the Palm. I think that if perfect Outlook syncing is the goal, the user is better off switching to a PPC.

You now have an idea of how long ago it was that I used Dateman. And somehow, I remember reading somewhere not so long ago that it was still in beta. Obviously, I was wrong.

BTW, I have used (and own) Datebk, and I had the same sort of syncing problem with "floats". I now use Agendus (né ActionNames) though I must admit that it is overkill, which is why Dateman still sounds intriguing.

Have you tried Avenga? I haven't. radleyp

sfringer · 08-04-2003, 03:37 PM

Yea, I've read some reviews on the DataViz solution, and while it sounds 'nice' it also sounds like a total departure from the central design philosophy of the PalmOS. (And WAY too much overhead for me to even consider)

Well, the new version of DateMan is in the works (direct word from Ben, not just the interview), and I'll be interested to see the outcome of Ben's work (and his team).

No, I haven't tried (nor heard of) Avenga. Something worth looking at?

Scott

07-21-2003, 06:37 AM	#1
TadW Uebermensch Posts: 2,583 Karma: 1094606 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Device: Kindle	Best Datebook Replacement: V5.1a Final Just thought it worthy to mention. My second-to-iSilo-most-favorite app, DateBk, is now out with a new version. English: http://www.PimlicoSoftware.com/datebk5-v51a.zip German: http://www.PimlicoSoftware.com/datebk5-v51a-german.zip French: http://www.PimlicoSoftware.com/datebk5-v51a-french.zip Just check the about dialog for 's1' after the version number (the first V5.1a release still contained an unfixed bug).

07-28-2003, 01:20 PM	#3
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	Datebk The developer, CESD, is, as you put it, "the best", but I don't think that is true of the product itself. And that is for one simple reason: I - and others I know - find the GUI cluttered (especially when you add links and split the display). To me, GUI is very important: the better the screen looks, the easier the application is to use. CESD made a calculated decision which is to use the built-in Datebook display as a basis and add onto it. I think Dateman, and especially Agendus (which is what I use) have a more usable interface. radleyp

08-04-2003, 01:58 PM	#8
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	Dateman Dateman, I believe, is still in beta, where it has been for all the time it has been available for the Palm. It looked interesting, but when I first tried to use it, it had so many bugs, I gave up. Hope it's better now. As I am sure you know, Dateman, like ActionNames, is a reworking of an old Newton program. Ben Gottlieb of HandsHigh gave an interview to PalmGear a few weeks ago in which he promised a "final" version of Dateman very soon. I am not holding my breath. I also tried using SuperNames, but address programs that do not sink their data with the desktop are of no use to me. radleyp

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07-26-2003, 09:53 PM	#2
dillon65 Connoisseur Posts: 61 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Anywhere Device: TX	I second your motion, I'm still not hooked on the floats, but the creator is brilliant! dillon

07-29-2003, 10:53 AM	#5
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	I have not had any problems using Datebk - like you, I have used it (off and on) since Datebk3. Yet I feel I must explain why it seems to me cluttered: if you look at the Agendus screen, in both the split day view and the weekly list, you see that the headers are done in such a way that each day or view is sectioned into its own compartment. In Datebk everything runs together. I have experimented using different size fonts and colors, splitting the screen, adding links and notes, and to me (and my wife, who did want me to buy it for her) it becomes unreadable. radleyp

07-29-2003, 01:50 PM	#6
TadW Uebermensch Posts: 2,583 Karma: 1094606 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Device: Kindle	DateBk 5.0 just won the Handango Champion Awards 2003 for Best Productivity Application. Not sure if this is any representative....

08-04-2003, 01:33 PM	#7
sfringer Member Posts: 16 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2003 Device: Sony Clie T615C	I need to throw in another vote for DateMan. Having been an old Newton user, I've been familiar with StandAlone Software's work. I looked at DateBk, and while VERY powerful, was very much overkill for me (too steep of a learning curve to justify it's use - and I started my Datebook replacement look on a Palm IIIx with limited memory, so size played a big part). DateMan covers all the points I'm interested in, and works very well with StandAlone's own SuperNames (the linking of appointments/todos with contacts is great for eay reference to that information). If you're looking for a fairly robust yet light Datebook replacement, take a look at DateMan. Just my input. Scott

08-04-2003, 02:10 PM	#9
sfringer Member Posts: 16 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2003 Device: Sony Clie T615C	radleyp, Let's clear a few things up here: 1 - Ben Gottlieb works for StandAlone Software (Shannon Pekary works for Hands High Software) 2 - DateMan v1.08 is not in beta, it is a released product which I use daily. So, you can stop holding your breath (Sure, it has some nits that could be cleaned up, but it is a functional product) 3 - While DateMan for Palm shares a name with a prior Newton product from StanAlone, it is not simply a port. The Newton product is much more feature-rich and is probably not easily reproduced on the Palm's limited OS architecture. 4 - Yes, there is a new release of DateMan (v2) that is under development (as mentioned by Ben in his interview). I don't know when that is planned for release; but I'm certain it will be released. What data does SuperNames not sync to the destop? It syncs the base information from the AddressDB back to the Palm Desktop. It also syncs its 'custom' information back to the Palm Desktop (though it's stored in a record's note field, so it is not intuitively available within Palm Desktop). Several other Addressbook replacements function in the same manner. Scott

08-04-2003, 02:41 PM	#10
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	Sorry about the confusion in companies. I guess I should have been more precise, and specified that the last time I tried DateMan, it was in beta where, as I recall, it had already been for quite some time. As to SuperNames and syncing , I think we are saying the same thing, though I may have confused things by the use of the word "data". SuperNames allows for the creation of new fields, none of which sync back to the Palm. Or has that changed? Syncing for me has to be an exact exchange of information. I want the information on the desktop, where I do most of my data entry, to be in the same form as on the handheld. Do you use the desktop for data entry, or do you enter data mostly on the handheld? radleyp

08-04-2003, 02:54 PM	#11
sfringer Member Posts: 16 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2003 Device: Sony Clie T615C	I don't know how long ago you tried DateMan v1, but it wasn't a beta when I used it on my Palm IIIx (and that's been a few years) I do everything on the handheld, I've never gotten accustomed to a desktop PIM I figure my handheld is with me constantly, so I do all my work there... can't remember the last time I actually opened Palm Desktop). I don't do too much in the way of fancy data entry within SuperNames that I need on the desktop; so the fact it's maintained within the record's note field is fine. So, I can see where your issues would make that not so convenient. Right now, it seems, unless a user uses Outlook on the desktop there aren't too many options for syncing all the custom data between the handheld and the desktop seamlessly. (And I avoid MS apps whnever possible) The only desktop entry I do is for Smartlists to Go (formerly ThinkDB) since some of my databases can be quite sizable and contain lots of information. Scott

08-04-2003, 03:27 PM	#12
radleyp Evangelist Posts: 499 Karma: 20623 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Salem & NYC, NY Device: Kindle Global, iphone4, ipad	Interesting that you mention the syncing of Outlook, which I must use at my office. The "seamless" syncing of Outlook is possible only with applications that do not use the Palm database at all (Beyond Contacts, for example). Thus, you cannot link data within the Palm to the addressbook. Beyond Contacts solves this by introducing new datebook, todo and memo databases, and to me that's just a nightmare. So I just use the "general" fields in outlook, plus the four user fields, which correspond to the four custom fields in the Palm. I think that if perfect Outlook syncing is the goal, the user is better off switching to a PPC. You now have an idea of how long ago it was that I used Dateman. And somehow, I remember reading somewhere not so long ago that it was still in beta. Obviously, I was wrong. BTW, I have used (and own) Datebk, and I had the same sort of syncing problem with "floats". I now use Agendus (né ActionNames) though I must admit that it is overkill, which is why Dateman still sounds intriguing. Have you tried Avenga? I haven't. radleyp

08-04-2003, 03:37 PM	#13
sfringer Member Posts: 16 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2003 Device: Sony Clie T615C	Yea, I've read some reviews on the DataViz solution, and while it sounds 'nice' it also sounds like a total departure from the central design philosophy of the PalmOS. (And WAY too much overhead for me to even consider) Well, the new version of DateMan is in the works (direct word from Ben, not just the interview), and I'll be interested to see the outcome of Ben's work (and his team). No, I haven't tried (nor heard of) Avenga. Something worth looking at? Scott

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