Seriously thoughtful 100W incandescent lightbulbs banned in the EU from 1st Sep

[HarryT]

The manufacture or import of 100W incandscent lightbulbs will be banned in the EU from 1st Sept, although shops will still be permitted to sell off their existing stock.

Personally I think that this is a good thing; what do other people think?

[Sparrow]

This topic came up at a recent family get-together; everyone regretted the demise of incandescents and deplored the quality of the 'energy efficients' (EE).

I think the lack of competition will discourage innovation; so we're likely to be stuck with poor quality lighting for the forseeable future.

Personally, I've stock-piled a load of incandescent lightbulbs.
I expect I may be able to make a nice profit on my hoard in a year or two; and still have enough to see me through the next twenty years.

P.S. And another thing - my electricity supplier keeps sending me free EE bulbs to encourage their use. But they send the cheapest, nastiest ones they can find - how many thousands are going straight in the bin, and then off to the nearest landfill (mercury and all)?

[Sweetpea]

I've not used 100W in ages. But I don't like the banning of incandescent lightbulbs at all. Not unless there are real replacements for them. I now have 1 energy efficient lamp. It takes a second before it even turns on! We do have several LED lamps, but their light is generally "colder". But I do love the LED technology.

The banning of 100W's I don't mind that much. 60W and even 40W (with the right fixture) should be more than enough.

[Stitchawl]

I spend one evening each week chatting with the Japanese manager of Panasonic's Lighting division. I have some info on what will be coming out soon for the home market.

Right now in Japan, it is common to see energy efficient light bulbs being sold in all the stores. These are screw-base 'florescent-that-look-like-incandescents, ' cost about 10 times as much as ordinary incandescent bulbs, last 15 times longer, and use about 1/10 the energy to operate. Much more eco-friendly, and available all over Asia. I don't know if these are sold in Europe. They look a bit like a coiled up white worm with a screw base. I don't much care for the light they produce.

But... in about 6 months Panasonic will introduce LED strip lighting, looking like regular tubular florescents but using a series of LED modules to produce light. These will use even less energy and put out more light, last much longer, but cost significantly more to purchase. Plus, in order to use the newer systems, people will have to purchase new fixtures to run them.

There is no doubt that old Tom Edison put in some long hours experimenting to develop his light bulb. In fact, of the many substances he tried for filaments, one of them, bamboo, came from a bamboo grove not far from my house! (There is a big stone and copper memorial to Edison there.) But I think his incandescent bulb is going to join the 8-track tape player, Betamax videos, and telephones with cords.

The times they are a'changin...


Stitchawl

[HarryT]

The light from fluorescent bulbs is "yellower" than that from incandescents, but I think it's primarily a matter of what you're used to. I've personally used low-energy fluorescent lightbulbs for many years, and now I find that I prefer their light.

They do take a while to "warm up", compared to the "instant" light of incandscents; that's very true.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Right now in Japan, it is common to see energy efficient light bulbs being sold in all the stores. These are screw-base 'florescent-that-look-like-incandescents, ' cost about 10 times as much as ordinary incandescent bulbs, last 15 times longer, and use about 1/10 the energy to operate. Much more eco-friendly, and available all over Asia. I don't know if these are sold in Europe. They look a bit like a coiled up white worm with a screw base.

Yes, those are exactly what we have, except that most British lightbulbs have a "bayonet", rather than a "screw" fitting.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The manufacture or import of 100W incandscent lightbulbs will be banned in the EU from 1st Sept, although shops will still be permitted to sell off their existing stock.

Personally I think that this is a good thing; what do other people think?

I'm astonished people are still using them. I haven't used incandescent bulbs for the past 13 years. And now the cost advantage of compact fluorescents over incandescents is compelling.

Electricity is currently around 10p per kwH

A 100W incandescent costs £0.89, lasts for 1000 hours and costs 1p per hour

A 20W fluoresent costs £5.35 and lasts 8000 hours, and costs 0.2p per hour

So the 'pay-back' time for the fluorescent is less than 600 hours - shorter than the lifetime of the incandescent.

(cost of incandescent for 600 hours = £0.89 + 600*£0.01 = £6.89
cost of fluorescent for 600 hours = £5.35 + 600*£0.002 = £6.55)

[Sparrow]

I think we should just be made to strap an LED to our forehead - you only need light where you're looking, why waste energy illuminating the whole room?

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I'm astonished people are still using them. I haven't used incandescent bulbs for the past 13 years. And now the cost advantage of compact fluorescents over incandescents is compelling.

Electricity is currently around 10p per kwH

A 100W incandescent costs £0.89, lasts for 1000 hours and costs 1p per hour

A 20W fluoresent costs £5.35 and lasts 8000 hours, and costs 0.2p per hour

So the 'pay-back' time for the fluorescent is less than 600 hours - shorter than the lifetime of the incandescent.

(cost of incandescent for 600 hours = £0.89 + 600*£0.01 = £6.89
cost of fluorescent for 600 hours = £5.35 + 600*£0.002 = £6.55)

Don't forget the production of those fluorescent lamps. They are highly toxic.

And don't forget that turning those lamps on and off lots of times (like in a bathroom) will shorten their lifetime drastically.

Also don't forget that they are generally larger (in size) than a normal bulb, I have fixtures that can't hold a fluorescent lamp. (the one I have now just barely fits in the fixture and it's a large hanging lamp...)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Don't forget the production of those fluorescent lamps. They are highly toxic.

I think this is sometimes a little exaggerated. There is a very small amount of mercury in a fluorescent light.

Also don't forget that they are generally larger (in size) than a normal bulb, I have fixtures that can't hold a fluorescent lamp. (the one I have now just barely fits in the fixture and it's a large hanging lamp...)

The ones sold in the UK are no larger than a "standard" lightbulb. Strange that yours are larger!

[Halk]

I don't particularly like the energy efficient bulbs. Nor do I like policies such as the one Harry has mentioned.

My problem with the bulbs is when I switch on the light I want to see right now, not in a few minutes time when it's warmed up.

That said I don't use any filament bulbs in the house any more, simply on principle.

I do wish they'd come up with a bulb which drew more power for the first minute or two to cancel out the initial dim problem.

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by Halk

I do wish they'd come up with a bulb which drew more power for the first minute or two to cancel out the initial dim problem.

I was told that the new Panasonic LED's will be instant-on light.


Stitchawl

[Halk]

That's really good news.

I think they should have waited before sending out all these free bulbs, and before banning filament bulbs until an energy efficient bulb had arrived that was what consumers wanted.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, those are exactly what we have, except that most British lightbulbs have a "bayonet", rather than a "screw" fitting.

we used to have those "bayonet" light bulbs here but we switched to screw type ones years ago. i still have one fixture in my appart which takes that kind. you can only find them in hardware stores now, i should probably stockpile those (because i'm not sure i'm up to rewiring a wall fixture, although maybe i could, since i've made lamps before). all my other lamps are the compact fluorescent "low energy" bulbs except for one which is a halogen with a dimmer switch (which i wired myself, when i first moved here, because in winter it was very dark in that room and it was depressing, i wanted a bright light. and i needed a lot of light for painting).

i think it's a bit ironic that people are being made to use the compact fluroescents which have mercury in them, since mercury thermometers were banned several years ago and you can't buy them any more. at the time there was a campaign to retire them and you could turn in your old mercury thermometer at a pharmacy and get a free alcohol (?) one. now most of them are the electric "in the ear" type with an lcd display, although actually i do still have my mercury one.

i don't really mind them, most of them time ; they give a colder light, which doesn't bother me because i find the yellow light of incandescents to be a bit too yellow ; it seems a bit sad and wintery to me for some reason (i realise that makes little sense since yellow is a warm colour, but natural light tends to be a bit blue-ish, especially in summertime, so i prefer blue-ish light bulbs because it seems more like daylight). but if you use a coloured lampshade you can easily change the colour. i have a japanese paper lantern shade in my bedroom, the paper is off-white and it makes the light a bit warmer, and on my bedside lamp i made a shade out of pinkish tissue paper which makes a nice soft light, good for getting ready to fall asleep. i think i'd like to try led bulbs but for the moment they are still really expensive to purchase.

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I think we should just be made to strap an LED to our forehead - you only need light where you're looking, why waste energy illuminating the whole room?

[kacir]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Personally I think that this is a good thing; what do other people think?

Well, it is not such a good thing.
There are still quite a few places where "good old" incandescent lightbulb is much better choice.
- in bathroom - the lightbulb is only used for short periods of time but frequently. Also high humidity shortens the life of the bulb considerably. CFL tends to die loooong before the energy savings can kick in.
- in places where you need full spectrum warm light
- in workshops where machines are used. CFLs are blinking rapidly. An object rotating at high RPM can appear to be rotating much more slowly or even in opposite direction due to stroboscopic effect.

I wonder when they start banning sale of food with high fat content, fried food, food with high sugar content or bread made from "white" (understand non-whole-grain) flour. Oooops. Never mind. ;-)