Update from DB2009

Nate the great · 05-11-2009, 09:38 PM

I decided to take a few minutes and pass on a few tidbits.

Microsoft isn't here, nor is Amazon or Mobipocket. But I did get a few minutes with Bookeen.

They have a special firmware with both DE and Mobipocket support. Amazon won't let them release it. But I did get few details on their plans. They plan to maintain 2 firmwares, DE and Mobipocket. Both firmwares will continue to be developed, and both will have folder support.

Bookeen is also looking for a brick and mortar retailer in the US, and this is where things get interesting. We were sharing a table with someone from Ingram Digital, and he said that Target has decided to only carry Sony Readers, and that Costco (in attendance at DB09) had already made a decision on which reader to carry. He's under a NDA, so he couldn't tell me which reader.

But he could say that the Kindle has sold just over 300k, and that the Sony Reader has outsold the Kindle by about 25%.

grooks · 05-11-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

But he could say that the Kindle has sold just over 300k, and that the Sony Reader has outsold the Kindle by about 25%.

Are those numbers since inception of the respective devices?

Do Sony sales include U.S. and Europe?

Andybaby · 05-11-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

But he could say that the Kindle has sold just over 300k, and that the Sony Reader has outsold the Kindle by about 25%.

that's the amount of K2s they sold, they have sold over 800,000 kindles I've heard. which would mean over 2ce as much kindles as sony readers.

sirbruce · 05-12-2009, 12:48 AM

Yep, they're only counting K2s. There's been 500K K1s and 300K K2s; about 400K Sonys. So I would not trust anything else Bookeen says about secret firmware when they're being deceptive on such a factual point.

Andybaby · 05-12-2009, 01:27 AM

whys he quoting sonys and amazons sales figures and not their own anyway?

FizzyWater · 05-12-2009, 01:36 AM

I read it that the person from Ingram Digital, not the Bookeen rep, was source of the information about Amazon and Sony.

sirbruce · 05-12-2009, 03:13 AM

Ahh yes, I guess we both read it too fast. Still I don't know if I'd trust someone from Ingram Digital, either.

Nate the great · 05-12-2009, 07:55 AM

He was talking about the total number of Kindles, both the original and the K2. He also said that estimate of 500k for the original is simply impossible. There is barely a million 6" screens in existence. There's no way Amazon could have gotten that many.

And I wouldn't have said that Bookeen had a special firmware if I hadn't had my hands on the device.

sirbruce · 05-12-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

He was talking about the total number of Kindles, both the original and the K2. He also said that estimate of 500k for the original is simply impossible. There is barely a million 6" screens in existence. There's no way Amazon could have gotten that many.

And we believe this guy over professional analysts and news reporters because ... ?

1 million devices is sort of a "magic number" whereupon you start to see the device in use in the wild on a regular basis. Ask anyone who has been on a plane or train in the past 3 months if they've seen a Kindle; a good chance the answer is yes.

Sweetpea · 05-12-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

He was talking about the total number of Kindles, both the original and the K2. He also said that estimate of 500k for the original is simply impossible. There is barely a million 6" screens in existence. There's no way Amazon could have gotten that many.

Worldwide or US only?

If it was US only, it might be plausible. If it was worldwide, I'm not too sure...

zelda_pinwheel · 05-12-2009, 08:06 AM

if those numbers are accurate, that's quite a lot of devices in the wild. and that doesn't even include all the other brands ; i know that russia for instance is a huge reader market. that is excellent news.

as for bookeen's firmware, it's good to have some confirmation about their plans. that is more or less what i thought they would do ; they don't really have a choice, since amazon insists on exclusivity, but it does put them in difficult position for their mobi support...

i can't wait to hear more ! thanks for the reports nate.

JSWolf · 05-12-2009, 08:33 AM

I was kind of hoping that with DE support, the Gen3 would lose Mobipocket so it would be ePub all the way.

wallcraft · 05-12-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

He was talking about the total number of Kindles, both the original and the K2. He also said that estimate of 500k for the original is simply impossible. There is barely a million 6" screens in existence. There's no way Amazon could have gotten that many.

This might be correct. The total number of 6" screens does place an upper limit on the number of Readers. The problem, though, is that "barely a million" isn't a very accurate number either. The few reports we got last year from PVI sources indicated that the K1 was outselling the Sonys, but Sony had a multi-year head start on the Kindle. There were 300K Sony Readers at the end of last year, and my guess is that there were ~300K K1s at that point but it could be ~200K or ~500K.

For me, the important number is ~1M EInk Readers of all brands. This will be at least 2M by the end of the year and perhaps 3M. Do we know what PVIs current production limit is?

zelda_pinwheel · 05-12-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I was kind of hoping that with DE support, the Gen3 would lose Mobipocket so it would be ePub all the way.

i suspect that mobipocket will eventually die out, and probably relatively soon ; but for bookeen to drop mobi right away would be a very dangerous move for them, since they already have a very large user base with mobipocket devices, who have invested (sometimes a lot of) money in mobipocket books. abandoning support brutally overnight for the device would alienate these users, many of whom have no idea or desire how to format shift (particularly since a lot of their books are probably drmed). the transition has to be made in such a way that everyone can follow it without feeling they've got a bad deal. just look at the uproar here, in the speculations about the new bookeen firmware ; and our members are among the most knowledgeable about formats, shifting, etc.

it's in bookeen's interest to adopt epub, particularly in europe, but it's also in their interest to take care of their existing client base.

JSWolf · 05-12-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

i suspect that mobipocket will eventually die out, and probably relatively soon ; but for bookeen to drop mobi right away would be a very dangerous move for them, since they already have a very large user base with mobipocket devices, who have invested (sometimes a lot of) money in mobipocket books. abandoning support brutally overnight for the device would alienate these users, many of whom have no idea or desire how to format shift (particularly since a lot of their books are probably drmed). the transition has to be made in such a way that everyone can follow it without feeling they've got a bad deal. just look at the uproar here, in the speculations about the new bookeen firmware ; and our members are among the most knowledgeable about formats, shifting, etc.

it's in bookeen's interest to adopt epub, particularly in Europe, but it's also in their interest to take care of their existing client base.

I suppose Bookeen could just offer both firmware and let the user decide which they want. But due to Mobipocket's exclusivity and that a lot of readers want ADE, then I do see Mobipocket not going on a lot of new devices and that's not going to do well for Mobipocket. I know I'd rather have ePub then MP. And now with the local library supporting ePub, I can get some eBooks there without having to convert.

05-11-2009, 09:38 PM	#1
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	Update from DB2009 I decided to take a few minutes and pass on a few tidbits. Microsoft isn't here, nor is Amazon or Mobipocket. But I did get a few minutes with Bookeen. They have a special firmware with both DE and Mobipocket support. Amazon won't let them release it. But I did get few details on their plans. They plan to maintain 2 firmwares, DE and Mobipocket. Both firmwares will continue to be developed, and both will have folder support. Bookeen is also looking for a brick and mortar retailer in the US, and this is where things get interesting. We were sharing a table with someone from Ingram Digital, and he said that Target has decided to only carry Sony Readers, and that Costco (in attendance at DB09) had already made a decision on which reader to carry. He's under a NDA, so he couldn't tell me which reader. But he could say that the Kindle has sold just over 300k, and that the Sony Reader has outsold the Kindle by about 25%.

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05-12-2009, 12:48 AM	#4
sirbruce Provocateur Posts: 1,859 Karma: 505847 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Columbus, OH Device: Kindle Touch, Kindle 2, Kindle DX, iPhone 3GS	Yep, they're only counting K2s. There's been 500K K1s and 300K K2s; about 400K Sonys. So I would not trust anything else Bookeen says about secret firmware when they're being deceptive on such a factual point.

05-12-2009, 01:27 AM	#5
Andybaby Wizard Posts: 1,279 Karma: 1002683 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New York Device: PRS-700	whys he quoting sonys and amazons sales figures and not their own anyway?

05-12-2009, 01:36 AM	#6
FizzyWater You kids get off my lawn! Posts: 4,220 Karma: 73492664 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Device: Oasis 2 and Libra H2O and half a dozen older models I can't let go of	I read it that the person from Ingram Digital, not the Bookeen rep, was source of the information about Amazon and Sony.

05-12-2009, 03:13 AM	#7
sirbruce Provocateur Posts: 1,859 Karma: 505847 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Columbus, OH Device: Kindle Touch, Kindle 2, Kindle DX, iPhone 3GS	Ahh yes, I guess we both read it too fast. Still I don't know if I'd trust someone from Ingram Digital, either.

05-12-2009, 07:55 AM	#8
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	He was talking about the total number of Kindles, both the original and the K2. He also said that estimate of 500k for the original is simply impossible. There is barely a million 6" screens in existence. There's no way Amazon could have gotten that many. And I wouldn't have said that Bookeen had a special firmware if I hadn't had my hands on the device.

05-12-2009, 08:06 AM	#11
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	if those numbers are accurate, that's quite a lot of devices in the wild. and that doesn't even include all the other brands ; i know that russia for instance is a huge reader market. that is excellent news. as for bookeen's firmware, it's good to have some confirmation about their plans. that is more or less what i thought they would do ; they don't really have a choice, since amazon insists on exclusivity, but it does put them in difficult position for their mobi support... i can't wait to hear more ! thanks for the reports nate.

05-12-2009, 08:33 AM	#12
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,448 Karma: 145491800 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I was kind of hoping that with DE support, the Gen3 would lose Mobipocket so it would be ePub all the way.

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