ok cat folks another question (help!!!)

krisk · 05-06-2009, 04:41 PM

kindle kitten has a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde issue. she is normally a loving playful kitty, but every once in awhile she goes batsh*t. when she does this she does the "disembowling" routine on whatever appendage she can grasp. she is very aggressive when she does this. I have tried a number of behaviour modifications to include;
acting like Mom Cat ie; picking her up by the scruff and shaking and growling
holding her gently but firmly as still as possible
trying to pin her down and soothingly stroke her
time out (isolation)
aggressive play with a large stuffed animal

there is no one good solution that works all the time. when she does it to me it's one thing, she's my kitten and I need to deal with her, but since we are living "comunally" and I don't want her to have to be locked up all of the time I need a good solution for other people to use. last night she started after the housemate's daughter's feet (she's 22, no worries), but I don't need injured roomies. she actually drew blood in 3 different places on me last night.

Patricia · 05-06-2009, 05:00 PM

This sounds like a case for classical conditioning.
My daughter has the twin of your kitty (or a clone). She has taken to both shouting and putting a conical collar on the cat whenever he goes wild. The collar is left over from his last surgery. Now, she only needs to pick up the collar or raise her voice and the cat stops in his tracks.

A neighbour prefers to use a water-pistol on his naughty cat. The critter now stops whenever anyone even picks up the pistol. It takes about a week of very consistent use.

Tell your house-mate about the chosen means of behavioural adjustment and encourage her to use it. Then the cat gets a consistent hint to alter his behaviour. They aren't stupid, so you should get results.

DixieGal · 05-06-2009, 05:01 PM

You need a second kitten so that they can play together.

Peverel · 05-06-2009, 05:02 PM

Hi Krisk,

I have a cat who is just coming up to her 1st birthday, She has always been with me and definately likes to play rough and do the whole "disembowelling" thing. I guess I was lucky as when she was about 4 months old and still indoors all the time I got her a stuffed toy "Gator" that is a pretty well made kids toy thing. (Picture attached). Its about 10 inches long tail to nose and was almost as big has her when she first had it.

Everytime she attacked me I used to give her Gator to fight with.

Now the only thing she does the "disembowelling" act on is gator. He has survived 8 months of being attacked regularly and seems to be none the worse for wear (I check him regularly as I don't want him to rip open). Better still she carries him around all over the house with her by the scruff of his neck and regularly has little mewing conversations with him.

Right I am going to stop now as I sound like a sad old middle age bloke who spends too much time with his cat lol. But most importantly I found a decent size stuffed animal toy (she now has a couple of others although Gator is still her favorite) seemed to stop her attacking me, my shoes and anyone who entered the house.

Hope this helps

Pev

krisk · 05-06-2009, 06:20 PM

ah Dixie, it would be nice to have another kitten but as we are gypsies for at least another year, she will have to be content with the dog. Patricia, I'm hoping the housemates don't need to discipline her, I'm afraid they would just insist she go to her room. I had been using a squirt gun, not unpacked yet, that she snarls and bats at. I guess I need to get it out. welcome Peverel! you sound like a nice kitty dad! she had a stuffed beaver, it was a dog toy, that she carried all around. it dissappeared during the March move, and none of the other toys I have gotten her seem to be quite as interesting to her.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-06-2009, 09:24 PM

hi peverel ! i'm always happy to see someone showing love to their kitty.

krisk, my cousin says "no" in a really low growly voice to her kitten when she gets out of hand and the kitten actually does listen to her. i think it's a question of intimidation. the good news is, most kittens are wildcats when they're young but they calm down a bit as they grow up. the little bug is still really playful but a mere fraction as insane as when her name still made obvious sense.

Ervserver · 05-06-2009, 09:34 PM

First I would invest in those covers that go over the nails, they come in many colors, inexpensive, easy to put on, and will save on furniture and your hide.

Second I would invest in the book Clicker Training for cats, perhaps your library would even have it.

desertgrandma · 05-06-2009, 09:43 PM

Ours responds well to a well placed squirt of water. I keep a few small spray bottles handy in different rooms and use them whenever my cat from hell goes for the feet.

sometimes I'll be walking from one room to the other, and he'll attack my feet and draw blood......a squirt of the water and he's gone. Trouble is, until I can get to the bottle, my feet are in shreds. Another cat is out of the question.

Having him de-toothed isn't. (JUST KIDDING!)

Lady Blue · 05-06-2009, 11:17 PM

I sure wish I could add to this discussion and offer advice or a solution, but I'm having a hard time relating to the misbehaving kitten problem. I don't have any cats right now, but I always had a cat in my life (both with and without dogs) until I was 26.

I never had a cat that acted like you're all talking about. I've always heard people talk about cats having the reputation of being independent, aloof, temperamental, prone to scratching people and furniture, jumping up and walking around on tables and counters, climbing curtains and getting hair balls. I've even known people (I work with one) who have had their cats declawed because of such behavior. I personally find this barbaric.

I never experienced any unfavorable behavior from any of my cats. My worst experience with any of my kitties was when I was about 9. My pure white cat was sitting on my lap and I allowed him to lick my arm on the inside on my elbow . . . for a very long time . . . BIG mistake. That's when I first learned about a cat's rough tongue. SERIOUS KITTY HICKEY! BIG TIME OW!

I guess I was extremely fortunate with my feline friends.

I wonder if there's some kind of a smell deterrent for cats, like "Bitter Apple" is said to be a taste deterrent to dogs. Something that doesn't stain or smell bad to humans, but DOES smell bad to cats, that could be sprayed on shoes, feet or wherever the cat tends to attack - a cat repellent of sorts - like UN-CATNIP.

Justy · 05-06-2009, 11:37 PM

The most important thing is to not allow the behaviour. Best idea is to pick up kitty by scruff of neck, put on floor and ignore. This worked great for me when my kitty tried to disembowel my arm like he did hubby's. Now we have a small spray bottle which I shake if kitty tries to nip me. He gets down quickly if I shake the bottle. Only hubby gets bit now, I just get nips.

I think if Hubby had stopped with the aggressive play when kitty was small we wouldn't have any issues with him now.

Sweetpea · 05-07-2009, 04:14 AM

One of my cats like to to that move too. But I learned him not to use his nails when he does it. And when he does forget, I'll tell him that (in a strict voice, not shouting, but showing displeasure) and if he doesn't detract his nails, I'll just stop playing. Or even give him a shove away from me. He'll come crawling back and he will play more carefull (for a time, till he forgets again, though the time becomes longer...)

He also likes to go scratching the catflap (he always wants to go outside when we don't want him to go outside), but a few well placed water squirts took care of that...

The most important part of training a cat is teaching him not to use his nails... We didn't have our cats as kittens, one was 3 years, the other 1, so it takes a bit more time to teach them that. Our previous cat never used his nails (my mother raised him from a kitten and always "punished" nail use...)

And Blue Lady, I agree with you on the declawing... My cats would be devastated if I'd remove their claws. How can a cat scratch a tre without it? Or catch a mice? (though I need to clip the nails of the red one, his are sharp!)

ruskie · 05-07-2009, 04:52 AM

Being the owner of two 3 going on 4yr old cats I've never seen this kind of behavior. Yes they do play but never to hurt. And they try the disembowel attack but again gently.

Yes they do walk an tables and so on but a stern verbal warning tends to be enough. As they are indoor cats I had to train them to behave on the balconies(yes we have 3 of them but only two are really accessible). Third floor and this being an old block each floor is ~3-4m. Had to teach them NOT to go on the outside of the railing and so on. It took effort to do it but now they know not to put their paws outside the railing.

As for furniture scratching other than an older piece of furniture that destined for trash they actually used the scratching post automatically when they got it. I find a stern word and to show that something actually hurts to be a LOT better than any other approach.

If they hit me with a claw I'll go "AAUW!" and in 9/10 cases the cat stops and looks at me. In general it doesn't repeat.

Yes they do climb curtains and hang off them and so on but it's not much of a problem. They are heavy duty thick curtains meant to actually do something effective not just attract dust and look pretty.

As others have pointed out a toy or two can help with this as well. And as they are just playing teaching them is important.

One of my cats knows to get to the balcony he needs to whine at me infront of the door and eventually I'll open it. But if I'm not quick enough he'll try to do some exploration around my room along the way. Or play with wires and so on. He also knows what is needed to open the door. He constantly paws the door knob and the key.

So to sum up. Treat them as any other intelligent being and they'll learn. How would you teach a child to not do something... It really is as simple as that.

Of course as any other intelligent being they have their own quirks and issues and will at times ignore what they've learned.

krisk · 05-07-2009, 10:57 AM

I have the "soft paws" she had them on as a kitten but I allowed them to come off at the last place as they wanted her to be a mouser. I ordered the small cat size day before yesterday, hopefully they will be here in a day or so. I also found my bag of water pistols this morning

. kindle kitten has toys, toys and more toys! she is mega spoiled! she also has two of the kitty activity condos. I think part of it is we were together pretty much non stop when she was little and she thinks I am part of the kitten family and it is her right to jump all over me due to my long absences. I have had many many kitties but she is the most active, busy, etc etc I've ever had.

but I lurvs her and shall persevere!

columbus · 05-07-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justy;

I think if Hubby had stopped with the aggressive play when kitty was small we wouldn't have any issues with him now.

That's the most important, a lot of cat owners teach the habit of aggressive play. My eldest daughter's SO tormented their kitten & could not understand why it only attacked him.

If the claws come out push the cat away & ignore.
Or as an alternative to a water pistol cats do not enjoy a blast of air in the face a mini bicycle pump is ideal and non harming.

acprinter · 05-07-2009, 11:20 AM

Cats, Dogs, Birds or any other animals are just like people, they all have differents personalities and temperaments. Some cats are outgoing and some are introverts, you got the outgoing extrovert.

Its best to play with the kitten only up to the point the kitten begins to show signs of aggression and then stop and leave. Sometimes just saying no in a very stern voice can help. Never use their name when repremanding, they begin to associate their name as something negative.

When all else fails reach for the squirt bottle with plain water.

05-06-2009, 04:41 PM	#1
krisk Wizard Posts: 2,148 Karma: 8229 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: on the road again Device: kindle	ok cat folks another question (help!!!) kindle kitten has a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde issue. she is normally a loving playful kitty, but every once in awhile she goes batsh*t. when she does this she does the "disembowling" routine on whatever appendage she can grasp. she is very aggressive when she does this. I have tried a number of behaviour modifications to include; acting like Mom Cat ie; picking her up by the scruff and shaking and growling holding her gently but firmly as still as possible trying to pin her down and soothingly stroke her time out (isolation) aggressive play with a large stuffed animal there is no one good solution that works all the time. when she does it to me it's one thing, she's my kitten and I need to deal with her, but since we are living "comunally" and I don't want her to have to be locked up all of the time I need a good solution for other people to use. last night she started after the housemate's daughter's feet (she's 22, no worries), but I don't need injured roomies. she actually drew blood in 3 different places on me last night.

05-06-2009, 05:02 PM	#4
Peverel Still Easily Confused Posts: 889 Karma: 505319 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampshire/Berkshire/Surrey - yes I am that big Device: Kindle	Hi Krisk, I have a cat who is just coming up to her 1st birthday, She has always been with me and definately likes to play rough and do the whole "disembowelling" thing. I guess I was lucky as when she was about 4 months old and still indoors all the time I got her a stuffed toy "Gator" that is a pretty well made kids toy thing. (Picture attached). Its about 10 inches long tail to nose and was almost as big has her when she first had it. Everytime she attacked me I used to give her Gator to fight with. Now the only thing she does the "disembowelling" act on is gator. He has survived 8 months of being attacked regularly and seems to be none the worse for wear (I check him regularly as I don't want him to rip open). Better still she carries him around all over the house with her by the scruff of his neck and regularly has little mewing conversations with him. Right I am going to stop now as I sound like a sad old middle age bloke who spends too much time with his cat lol. But most importantly I found a decent size stuffed animal toy (she now has a couple of others although Gator is still her favorite) seemed to stop her attacking me, my shoes and anyone who entered the house. Hope this helps Pev Attached Thumbnails

05-07-2009, 10:57 AM	#13
krisk Wizard Posts: 2,148 Karma: 8229 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: on the road again Device: kindle	I have the "soft paws" she had them on as a kitten but I allowed them to come off at the last place as they wanted her to be a mouser. I ordered the small cat size day before yesterday, hopefully they will be here in a day or so. I also found my bag of water pistols this morning. kindle kitten has toys, toys and more toys! she is mega spoiled! she also has two of the kitty activity condos. I think part of it is we were together pretty much non stop when she was little and she thinks I am part of the kitten family and it is her right to jump all over me due to my long absences. I have had many many kitties but she is the most active, busy, etc etc I've ever had. but I lurvs her and shall persevere!

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05-06-2009, 05:00 PM	#2
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	This sounds like a case for classical conditioning. My daughter has the twin of your kitty (or a clone). She has taken to both shouting and putting a conical collar on the cat whenever he goes wild. The collar is left over from his last surgery. Now, she only needs to pick up the collar or raise her voice and the cat stops in his tracks. A neighbour prefers to use a water-pistol on his naughty cat. The critter now stops whenever anyone even picks up the pistol. It takes about a week of very consistent use. Tell your house-mate about the chosen means of behavioural adjustment and encourage her to use it. Then the cat gets a consistent hint to alter his behaviour. They aren't stupid, so you should get results.

05-06-2009, 05:01 PM	#3
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	You need a second kitten so that they can play together.

05-06-2009, 06:20 PM	#5
krisk Wizard Posts: 2,148 Karma: 8229 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: on the road again Device: kindle	ah Dixie, it would be nice to have another kitten but as we are gypsies for at least another year, she will have to be content with the dog. Patricia, I'm hoping the housemates don't need to discipline her, I'm afraid they would just insist she go to her room. I had been using a squirt gun, not unpacked yet, that she snarls and bats at. I guess I need to get it out. welcome Peverel! you sound like a nice kitty dad! she had a stuffed beaver, it was a dog toy, that she carried all around. it dissappeared during the March move, and none of the other toys I have gotten her seem to be quite as interesting to her.

05-06-2009, 09:24 PM	#6
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	hi peverel ! i'm always happy to see someone showing love to their kitty. krisk, my cousin says "no" in a really low growly voice to her kitten when she gets out of hand and the kitten actually does listen to her. i think it's a question of intimidation. the good news is, most kittens are wildcats when they're young but they calm down a bit as they grow up. the little bug is still really playful but a mere fraction as insane as when her name still made obvious sense.

05-06-2009, 09:34 PM	#7
Ervserver Wizard Posts: 2,624 Karma: 1008294 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch	First I would invest in those covers that go over the nails, they come in many colors, inexpensive, easy to put on, and will save on furniture and your hide. Second I would invest in the book Clicker Training for cats, perhaps your library would even have it.

05-06-2009, 09:43 PM	#8
desertgrandma Enjoying the show.... Posts: 14,270 Karma: 10462843 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arizona Device: A K1, Kindle Paperwhite, an Ipod, IPad2, Iphone, an Ipad Mini & macAir	Ours responds well to a well placed squirt of water. I keep a few small spray bottles handy in different rooms and use them whenever my cat from hell goes for the feet. sometimes I'll be walking from one room to the other, and he'll attack my feet and draw blood......a squirt of the water and he's gone. Trouble is, until I can get to the bottle, my feet are in shreds. Another cat is out of the question. Having him de-toothed isn't. (JUST KIDDING!)

05-06-2009, 11:17 PM	#9
Lady Blue the snarky blue one Posts: 6,001 Karma: 3877825 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: deep in the heart Device: PRS500, 505 & 600, PRST1 & T2, Kindle PW, Moto Razr, Galaxy Tab 2-10"	I sure wish I could add to this discussion and offer advice or a solution, but I'm having a hard time relating to the misbehaving kitten problem. I don't have any cats right now, but I always had a cat in my life (both with and without dogs) until I was 26. I never had a cat that acted like you're all talking about. I've always heard people talk about cats having the reputation of being independent, aloof, temperamental, prone to scratching people and furniture, jumping up and walking around on tables and counters, climbing curtains and getting hair balls. I've even known people (I work with one) who have had their cats declawed because of such behavior. I personally find this barbaric. I never experienced any unfavorable behavior from any of my cats. My worst experience with any of my kitties was when I was about 9. My pure white cat was sitting on my lap and I allowed him to lick my arm on the inside on my elbow . . . for a very long time . . . BIG mistake. That's when I first learned about a cat's rough tongue. SERIOUS KITTY HICKEY! BIG TIME OW! I guess I was extremely fortunate with my feline friends. I wonder if there's some kind of a smell deterrent for cats, like "Bitter Apple" is said to be a taste deterrent to dogs. Something that doesn't stain or smell bad to humans, but DOES smell bad to cats, that could be sprayed on shoes, feet or wherever the cat tends to attack - a cat repellent of sorts - like UN-CATNIP.

05-06-2009, 11:37 PM	#10
Justy Fanatic Posts: 547 Karma: 27509 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Greater Vancouver Area, BC, Canada Device: Nexus 7, Sony Xperia z3 tablet, Kobo Glo, Boyue T63	The most important thing is to not allow the behaviour. Best idea is to pick up kitty by scruff of neck, put on floor and ignore. This worked great for me when my kitty tried to disembowel my arm like he did hubby's. Now we have a small spray bottle which I shake if kitty tries to nip me. He gets down quickly if I shake the bottle. Only hubby gets bit now, I just get nips. I think if Hubby had stopped with the aggressive play when kitty was small we wouldn't have any issues with him now.

05-07-2009, 04:14 AM	#11
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	One of my cats like to to that move too. But I learned him not to use his nails when he does it. And when he does forget, I'll tell him that (in a strict voice, not shouting, but showing displeasure) and if he doesn't detract his nails, I'll just stop playing. Or even give him a shove away from me. He'll come crawling back and he will play more carefull (for a time, till he forgets again, though the time becomes longer...) He also likes to go scratching the catflap (he always wants to go outside when we don't want him to go outside), but a few well placed water squirts took care of that... The most important part of training a cat is teaching him not to use his nails... We didn't have our cats as kittens, one was 3 years, the other 1, so it takes a bit more time to teach them that. Our previous cat never used his nails (my mother raised him from a kitten and always "punished" nail use...) And Blue Lady, I agree with you on the declawing... My cats would be devastated if I'd remove their claws. How can a cat scratch a tre without it? Or catch a mice? (though I need to clip the nails of the red one, his are sharp!)

05-07-2009, 04:52 AM	#12
ruskie Shade Posts: 100 Karma: 546 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: U.LC.MW.Sol.Earth.EE.SI.LJ Device: Hanlin Jinke V3ext running OpenInkPot	Being the owner of two 3 going on 4yr old cats I've never seen this kind of behavior. Yes they do play but never to hurt. And they try the disembowel attack but again gently. Yes they do walk an tables and so on but a stern verbal warning tends to be enough. As they are indoor cats I had to train them to behave on the balconies(yes we have 3 of them but only two are really accessible). Third floor and this being an old block each floor is ~3-4m. Had to teach them NOT to go on the outside of the railing and so on. It took effort to do it but now they know not to put their paws outside the railing. As for furniture scratching other than an older piece of furniture that destined for trash they actually used the scratching post automatically when they got it. I find a stern word and to show that something actually hurts to be a LOT better than any other approach. If they hit me with a claw I'll go "AAUW!" and in 9/10 cases the cat stops and looks at me. In general it doesn't repeat. Yes they do climb curtains and hang off them and so on but it's not much of a problem. They are heavy duty thick curtains meant to actually do something effective not just attract dust and look pretty. As others have pointed out a toy or two can help with this as well. And as they are just playing teaching them is important. One of my cats knows to get to the balcony he needs to whine at me infront of the door and eventually I'll open it. But if I'm not quick enough he'll try to do some exploration around my room along the way. Or play with wires and so on. He also knows what is needed to open the door. He constantly paws the door knob and the key. So to sum up. Treat them as any other intelligent being and they'll learn. How would you teach a child to not do something... It really is as simple as that. Of course as any other intelligent being they have their own quirks and issues and will at times ignore what they've learned.

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05-07-2009, 11:20 AM	#15
acprinter Groupie Posts: 163 Karma: 3141364 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: California Gold Country Device: Paperwhite 11th generation	Cats, Dogs, Birds or any other animals are just like people, they all have differents personalities and temperaments. Some cats are outgoing and some are introverts, you got the outgoing extrovert. Its best to play with the kitten only up to the point the kitten begins to show signs of aggression and then stop and leave. Sometimes just saying no in a very stern voice can help. Never use their name when repremanding, they begin to associate their name as something negative. When all else fails reach for the squirt bottle with plain water.