Another opinion about K2 text to speech

MsAstoria · 02-27-2009, 03:10 PM

You know, I can relate to this USA Today's reader about the text to speech capability. My youngest son failed in high school as he had problems reading words and understanding them (dyslexic in my opinion, but not the Dr) He would have loved and thrived on text to speech!

(Clipping from todays USA Today issue) :
OPINION: "I appreciate USA TODAY’s review of the Kindle 2 and the discussion of the electronic reader’s new read-aloud feature (“Amazon electronic reader Kindle 2 is a nifty, if costly, second act,” Money, Tuesday; “Read-aloud feature on Kindle has people talking”). The Authors Guild’s concern over access to printed material via this text-to-speech component saddens me, and hopefully it won’t compromise this “experimental” application. As an advocate for people with disabilities and a parent of a child with multiple disabilities, I see it as a wonderful step forward in universal design. In fact, our family didn’t buy the original Kindle because it lacked a read-aloud feature. Some might feel it is unnecessary or find the computerized voice unpleasant. But it levels the field for those who have a visual deficit, a reading disability or other disability that hinders reading. Assistive technology can be costly, and the Kindle isn’t cheap. Even so, it’s a good use of AT in a high-tech device marketed to the masses. It introduces people to a helpful feature that they take for granted and might think they don’t need or want."

Ervserver · 02-27-2009, 03:32 PM

Text to speech has been around a long time, one doesn't need a $400 Kindle to utilize this technology. Don't schools have computers?

JSWolf · 02-27-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ervserver

Text to speech has been around a long time, one doesn't need a $400 Kindle to utilize this technology. Don't schools have computers?

The problem is that DRM prevents most eBooks from actually using the read-aloud feature of the display programs that have such. With the K2, this read-aloud works with the DRM so it's not an issue like it is with PDF or MS Reader formats. DRM has usually be anti-disabled and that's unfair. That's why the DMCA exceptions make it legal in the USA to remove the DRM so read-aloud works. But if you don't know how and where to get the tools, that's not an option. The K2 makes it an option now to have books read to you. So people with disabilities that make it hard to read can have their books read to them. Granted it is not as nice as a true audiobook, but for books that do not have an audiobook version, it's better then missing out on a lot of books.

I would like to see the heads of the Author's Guild say to a child who has disabilities that they want to take this feature away and you cannot have it and so we are going to make books less accessible to you. If they really did that, then I would urge every author who is a member who disagrees with removing the TTS from the K2 to cancel their memberships. In fact, that's actually a good idea.

JSWolf · 02-27-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsAstoria

You know, I can relate to this USA Today's reader about the text to speech capability. My youngest son failed in high school as he had problems reading words and understanding them (dyslexic in my opinion, but not the Dr)

There may possibly be a solution to dyslexia for some people. The solution is to change the text color from black to something else. I've been told that most of the time, green is a good choice. I know with Windows, you can change the main text color and try to find one that fits and is easiest to read.

MsAstoria · 02-27-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There may possibly be a solution to dyslexia for some people. The solution is to change the text color from black to something else. I've been told that most of the time, green is a good choice. I know with Windows, you can change the main text color and try to find one that fits and is easiest to read.

Oh, that is interesting! For Mike, he just seemed to have a "wiring" problem from seeing the word to assimilating it. When he would read out loud, he would often use an incorrect word like he was rushing too much and guessing at what he saw. He had 20/20 vision so no problem there. It was very frustrating for all of us. He was put in a classroom setting for a year with kids who did have learning problems but after a year, his teacher put him back in the main stream and said there was nothing wrong with him. So, try as I might, I just wasn't able to get him diagnosed properly. That was nearly fifteen years ago so in today's world his condition would probably be recognized and treatable.
Anyway, I applaud the lady for having the courage to speak her mind and support folks with reading disabilities.

rhadin · 02-27-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would like to see the heads of the Author's Guild say to a child who has disabilities that they want to take this feature away and you cannot have it and so we are going to make books less accessible to you. If they really did that, then I would urge every author who is a member who disagrees with removing the TTS from the K2 to cancel their memberships. In fact, that's actually a good idea.

The Author's Guild has never questioned the right of the disabled to use Text-toSpeech technology nor has the Guild asked that it be taken away from the disabled. It is use by the non-disabled that is in question. More importantly, what is really being questioned is Amazon's assertion that when you give it ebook rights you also are giving it audio rights. This does not appear in Amazon's contracts with publishers and authors and is simply an assertion by Amazon. The Guild says ebook rights do not include audio rights and without audio rights text-to-speech violates the author's copyright.

Again, the dispute has nothing to do with the rights of or access by the disabled.

Ervserver · 02-27-2009, 05:00 PM

If folks continue to make this a Guild vs disabled issue, where does that argument end. If the Guild can't make money off the disabled why is it ok for Amazon to do so...I'm not aware of Amazon giving Kindles away to the disabled, if the Kindle II is such a miracle for the disabled Amazon should be giving them away, how dare they make a cent! I'm appalled. Where is the outrage

JSWolf · 02-27-2009, 05:26 PM

When you download MS Reader, you find out it has this nice TTS feature. Yes, you can use the TTS that comes with Windows or you can purchase a better one to replace the Windows one. Now, you purchase some eBooks in MS Reader format for the first time and you expect to be able to use this feature that is built into the program. But, DRM says "Go away. You cannot do that as I am here and will stop you." How is this fair to people who do have a disability and need/want such a feature to actually work?

JSWolf · 02-27-2009, 05:28 PM

Here's what Amazon could do. They could have two different version of the K2 firmware. One with TTs and one without TTS. The one with TTS would only be used for K2 owners who can prove that the TTS will be used by someone with a disability. Otherwise, you get the firmware without the TTS. That would stop this nonsense for sure.

MsAstoria · 02-28-2009, 09:42 AM

So what..., you need a script from your Doctor to buy a TTS Kindle? I think anyone should be able to buy TTS or non-TTS Kindle as a choice of purchase, but then if Amazon removes TTS from their e-books, what's the point? I don't think TTS phones are controlled, are they?

rhadin · 02-28-2009, 10:37 AM

An update: Apparently Amazon has now decided to let copyright holders or publishers decide whether or not TTS will be permitted. This was reported at the Teleread website.

kilofox · 02-28-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

The Author's Guild has never questioned the right of the disabled to use Text-toSpeech technology nor has the Guild asked that it be taken away from the disabled. It is use by the non-disabled that is in question. More importantly, what is really being questioned is Amazon's assertion that when you give it ebook rights you also are giving it audio rights. This does not appear in Amazon's contracts with publishers and authors and is simply an assertion by Amazon. The Guild says ebook rights do not include audio rights and without audio rights text-to-speech violates the author's copyright.

Again, the dispute has nothing to do with the rights of or access by the disabled.

I agree with what you say. This audio vs TTS issue shows just how messed up copyright law is and just how stupid and short-sighted the Guild is. One would think that the TTS capability in the Kindle 2 would more than offset the loss of audio sales of a limited audio book library, by the increased sales of the entire Amazon library now accessible by people with disabilities.

Amazon is doing them, The Guild, a favor.. and they are too dumb to realize it.

chanze · 02-28-2009, 01:02 PM

Here's a link to one of the stories. Amazon is giving way to the guild already.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0,133240.story

I would think determined people would just strip the DRM and listen to it anyways?

rhadin · 02-28-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilofox

Amazon is doing them, The Guild, a favor.. and they are too dumb to realize it.

Whether or not something is a favor, or is beautiful, is in the eye of the recipient/beholder. I have no doubt that Amazon would think it is doing me a favor if it was the sole book publisher in the United States and could decide what I read, how I read it, and how much I pay to read it. I'm not certain I would view that a favor.

scotty1024 · 02-28-2009, 04:37 PM

So here's what I sent to Amazon's Kindle 2 feedback email box:

I applauded the inclusion of text-to-speech for all titles on the new Kindle 2 and now read with frustration that you are now in essence removing the feature (what publisher is going to not opt-out???)

I'm writing to request an opt-out for disabled users so their Kindle 2's can ignore the opt-out from the publishers. I believe this feature would best be implemented as a simple on/off option in the settings page: Disabled Access Mode On/Off.

This simple switch could then be used to enable other disability access features in addition to opting out of the text-to-speech publisher opt-out. For example: the six font sizes offered could be re-based to start with the current font size 5 and work up to add four new ludicrously large fonts. An inverted mode in which the page is drawn black and the text in white could be offered in settings. As well as the ability to scale the fonts for the UI itself to larger fonts. And even better; text-to-speech for the UI itself including a talking dictionary.

The re-setting of the offered font sizes would I believe offset any fears the publishers would have that the non-disabled would exploit the text-to-speech opt-out in addition to providing access to more legally blind individuals than the platform currently supports.

Countless lives would be positively affected by these changes.

02-27-2009, 03:10 PM	#1
MsAstoria Evangelist Posts: 423 Karma: 47344 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Astoria, Oregon, USA Device: Kindle Fire HDX, iPhone (yes, I read on my phone)	Another opinion about K2 text to speech You know, I can relate to this USA Today's reader about the text to speech capability. My youngest son failed in high school as he had problems reading words and understanding them (dyslexic in my opinion, but not the Dr) He would have loved and thrived on text to speech! (Clipping from todays USA Today issue) : OPINION: "I appreciate USA TODAY’s review of the Kindle 2 and the discussion of the electronic reader’s new read-aloud feature (“Amazon electronic reader Kindle 2 is a nifty, if costly, second act,” Money, Tuesday; “Read-aloud feature on Kindle has people talking”). The Authors Guild’s concern over access to printed material via this text-to-speech component saddens me, and hopefully it won’t compromise this “experimental” application. As an advocate for people with disabilities and a parent of a child with multiple disabilities, I see it as a wonderful step forward in universal design. In fact, our family didn’t buy the original Kindle because it lacked a read-aloud feature. Some might feel it is unnecessary or find the computerized voice unpleasant. But it levels the field for those who have a visual deficit, a reading disability or other disability that hinders reading. Assistive technology can be costly, and the Kindle isn’t cheap. Even so, it’s a good use of AT in a high-tech device marketed to the masses. It introduces people to a helpful feature that they take for granted and might think they don’t need or want."

02-27-2009, 03:32 PM	#2
Ervserver Wizard Posts: 2,624 Karma: 1008294 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch	Text to speech has been around a long time, one doesn't need a $400 Kindle to utilize this technology. Don't schools have computers? Last edited by Ervserver; 02-27-2009 at 03:34 PM.

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02-27-2009, 05:00 PM	#7
Ervserver Wizard Posts: 2,624 Karma: 1008294 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch	If folks continue to make this a Guild vs disabled issue, where does that argument end. If the Guild can't make money off the disabled why is it ok for Amazon to do so...I'm not aware of Amazon giving Kindles away to the disabled, if the Kindle II is such a miracle for the disabled Amazon should be giving them away, how dare they make a cent! I'm appalled. Where is the outrage

02-27-2009, 05:26 PM	#8
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,973 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	When you download MS Reader, you find out it has this nice TTS feature. Yes, you can use the TTS that comes with Windows or you can purchase a better one to replace the Windows one. Now, you purchase some eBooks in MS Reader format for the first time and you expect to be able to use this feature that is built into the program. But, DRM says "Go away. You cannot do that as I am here and will stop you." How is this fair to people who do have a disability and need/want such a feature to actually work?

02-27-2009, 05:28 PM	#9
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,973 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Here's what Amazon could do. They could have two different version of the K2 firmware. One with TTs and one without TTS. The one with TTS would only be used for K2 owners who can prove that the TTS will be used by someone with a disability. Otherwise, you get the firmware without the TTS. That would stop this nonsense for sure.

02-28-2009, 09:42 AM	#10
MsAstoria Evangelist Posts: 423 Karma: 47344 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Astoria, Oregon, USA Device: Kindle Fire HDX, iPhone (yes, I read on my phone)	So what..., you need a script from your Doctor to buy a TTS Kindle? I think anyone should be able to buy TTS or non-TTS Kindle as a choice of purchase, but then if Amazon removes TTS from their e-books, what's the point? I don't think TTS phones are controlled, are they?

02-28-2009, 10:37 AM	#11
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	An update: Apparently Amazon has now decided to let copyright holders or publishers decide whether or not TTS will be permitted. This was reported at the Teleread website.

02-28-2009, 01:02 PM	#13
chanze Nameless Being	Here's a link to one of the stories. Amazon is giving way to the guild already. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0,133240.story I would think determined people would just strip the DRM and listen to it anyways?

02-28-2009, 04:37 PM	#15
scotty1024 Banned Posts: 1,300 Karma: 1479 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Washington Device: Reader / iPhone / Librie / Kindle	So here's what I sent to Amazon's Kindle 2 feedback email box: I applauded the inclusion of text-to-speech for all titles on the new Kindle 2 and now read with frustration that you are now in essence removing the feature (what publisher is going to not opt-out???) I'm writing to request an opt-out for disabled users so their Kindle 2's can ignore the opt-out from the publishers. I believe this feature would best be implemented as a simple on/off option in the settings page: Disabled Access Mode On/Off. This simple switch could then be used to enable other disability access features in addition to opting out of the text-to-speech publisher opt-out. For example: the six font sizes offered could be re-based to start with the current font size 5 and work up to add four new ludicrously large fonts. An inverted mode in which the page is drawn black and the text in white could be offered in settings. As well as the ability to scale the fonts for the UI itself to larger fonts. And even better; text-to-speech for the UI itself including a talking dictionary. The re-setting of the offered font sizes would I believe offset any fears the publishers would have that the non-disabled would exploit the text-to-speech opt-out in addition to providing access to more legally blind individuals than the platform currently supports. Countless lives would be positively affected by these changes.

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