Why news-download scheduling requires calibre running non-stop?

sup · 07-17-2022, 07:15 AM

Right now, in "Schedule news download" window, it says "For the scheduling to work you must leave calibre running".

1) This sentence is misplaced in the GUI - it should be above "Account (required)", as it has nothing to do with the credentials (which semantically should probably be in another tab).

2) Nonetheless, why is there this limitation at all? Would it not make sense upon startup to check if last download occured before the scheduled date and if yes, initiate the download? In that case, the sentences in question could be replaced by a checkbox with something like "Download last news upon startup if the schedule was missed" or something like that.

I know I an achieve this with anacron, but in the same way I*could achieve scheduling itself with cron. I*do not like to keep calibre nor my computers running at all times, so scheduling is quite unreliable for me right now. Technically it does not seem to be complicated, so what is the reason? Or is it something where patches would be accepted?

kovidgoyal · 07-17-2022, 07:42 AM

take five minutes to think about how you'd schedule a download that occurs every day when your user turns you off for > 24 hrs.

sup · 07-17-2022, 08:32 AM

I actually did think about it, that is why I wrote ""Download last news upon startup if the schedule was missed", I underline the _last_. The older news would get dropped. Still an improvement over the current situation. A note saying this could be there instead of the one currently displayed.

kovidgoyal · 07-17-2022, 10:07 AM

The current situation *for you*.

sup · 07-17-2022, 10:16 AM

I believe not just me (one can easily google people learning to use anacron as I did to get around this limitation). It would provide more functionality and could be optional and probably would be just a few lines of code. I do not see much downside as current use would not be touched. And calibre is not exactly optionless, I do not understand why some options are supported and some not.

kovidgoyal · 07-17-2022, 10:23 AM

This is the perfect example of a *brittle* option. One that leads to things being missed. And since you are not the one that gets to deal with users screaming because they miss things, you dont get to decide what options are worth implementing or not.

sup · 07-17-2022, 10:54 AM

But things are missed already. You solve that by informing users in the interface that calibre needs to be running. I*am not sure how informing users that only lasts issue can be downloaded like that unless calibre is running would change things.

Anyway, if there was a system to download older news (The Economist recipe has some preliminary code for that), would you reconsider for recipes that implemented that?

kovidgoyal · 07-17-2022, 10:58 AM

"Keep calibre running or you will miss issues" is simple and understandable and robust.

"Feel free to run calibre whenever you feel like it and *some* of your issues may be downloaded"

is not.

And no, you are now proposing to make that *some* above even harder to understand.

sup · 07-17-2022, 11:29 AM

No, that "some" would be clear. If recipe implemented a way to download past issues, all issues would be downloaded (parsing this is not that difficult: https://www.economist.com/weeklyedition/archive ). If a recipe did not implement it, no issues would be downloaded.

I think a wording could be found that would not be misleading (somethin like NOTE: You may miss some issue this way.). Also, the requirement to keep callibre running would be much more bearable if it could keep running without its window as a daemon, though I understand that is a bug change.

P.S.: I think at least the issue 1) from the original post could be addressed.

kovidgoyal · 07-17-2022, 12:28 PM

How is a user supposed to know which recipes implement download of archives? Magic? Browsing the source code?

And you can keep calibre running without its window already by enabling the system tray icon.

Feel free to send a PR for (1). EDIT: https://github.com/kovidgoyal/calibr...87fa380c4a16af

sup · 07-17-2022, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

How is a user supposed to know which recipes implement download of archives? Magic? Browsing the source code?

And you can keep calibre running without its window already by enabling the system tray icon.

The same way as some recipes display account information or not.

I see, true (though it does not really solve the issue of turning computer off).

07-17-2022, 07:15 AM	#1
sup Zealot Posts: 103 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2012)	Why news-download scheduling requires calibre running non-stop? Right now, in "Schedule news download" window, it says "For the scheduling to work you must leave calibre running". 1) This sentence is misplaced in the GUI - it should be above "Account (required)", as it has nothing to do with the credentials (which semantically should probably be in another tab). 2) Nonetheless, why is there this limitation at all? Would it not make sense upon startup to check if last download occured before the scheduled date and if yes, initiate the download? In that case, the sentences in question could be replaced by a checkbox with something like "Download last news upon startup if the schedule was missed" or something like that. I know I an achieve this with anacron, but in the same way Icould achieve scheduling itself with cron. Ido not like to keep calibre nor my computers running at all times, so scheduling is quite unreliable for me right now. Technically it does not seem to be complicated, so what is the reason? Or is it something where patches would be accepted?

07-17-2022, 12:28 PM	#10
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,345 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	How is a user supposed to know which recipes implement download of archives? Magic? Browsing the source code? And you can keep calibre running without its window already by enabling the system tray icon. Feel free to send a PR for (1). EDIT: https://github.com/kovidgoyal/calibr...87fa380c4a16af Last edited by kovidgoyal; 07-17-2022 at 12:31 PM.

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07-17-2022, 07:42 AM	#2
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,345 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	take five minutes to think about how you'd schedule a download that occurs every day when your user turns you off for > 24 hrs.

07-17-2022, 08:32 AM	#3
sup Zealot Posts: 103 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2012)	I actually did think about it, that is why I wrote ""Download last news upon startup if the schedule was missed", I underline the _last_. The older news would get dropped. Still an improvement over the current situation. A note saying this could be there instead of the one currently displayed.

07-17-2022, 10:07 AM	#4
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,345 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	The current situation for you.

07-17-2022, 10:16 AM	#5
sup Zealot Posts: 103 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2012)	I believe not just me (one can easily google people learning to use anacron as I did to get around this limitation). It would provide more functionality and could be optional and probably would be just a few lines of code. I do not see much downside as current use would not be touched. And calibre is not exactly optionless, I do not understand why some options are supported and some not.

07-17-2022, 10:23 AM	#6
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,345 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	This is the perfect example of a brittle option. One that leads to things being missed. And since you are not the one that gets to deal with users screaming because they miss things, you dont get to decide what options are worth implementing or not.

07-17-2022, 10:54 AM	#7
sup Zealot Posts: 103 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2012)	But things are missed already. You solve that by informing users in the interface that calibre needs to be running. I*am not sure how informing users that only lasts issue can be downloaded like that unless calibre is running would change things. Anyway, if there was a system to download older news (The Economist recipe has some preliminary code for that), would you reconsider for recipes that implemented that?

07-17-2022, 10:58 AM	#8
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,345 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	"Keep calibre running or you will miss issues" is simple and understandable and robust. "Feel free to run calibre whenever you feel like it and some of your issues may be downloaded" is not. And no, you are now proposing to make that some above even harder to understand.

07-17-2022, 11:29 AM	#9
sup Zealot Posts: 103 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2013 Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2012)	No, that "some" would be clear. If recipe implemented a way to download past issues, all issues would be downloaded (parsing this is not that difficult: https://www.economist.com/weeklyedition/archive ). If a recipe did not implement it, no issues would be downloaded. I think a wording could be found that would not be misleading (somethin like NOTE: You may miss some issue this way.). Also, the requirement to keep callibre running would be much more bearable if it could keep running without its window as a daemon, though I understand that is a bug change. P.S.: I think at least the issue 1) from the original post could be addressed.

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