FWIW: Anti-amazon astroturfing

[fjtorres]

This may belong elsewhere, move accordingly.

All those recent anti-Amazon reports? Not an accident.
At least one book-related story has quoted these folks.

From the WSJ, Via MSN:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...1_20190920_6_2

About 18 months ago a new nonprofit group called Free and Fair Markets Initiative launched a national campaign criticizing the business practices of one powerful company: Amazon.com Inc.


Free and Fair Markets accused Amazon of stifling competition and innovation, inhibiting consumer choice, gorging on government subsidies, endangering its warehouse workers and exposing consumer data to privacy breaches. It claimed to have grass-roots support from average citizens across the U.S, citing a labor union, a Boston management professor and a California businessman.

What the group did not say is that it received backing from some of Amazon’s chief corporate rivals. They include shopping mall owner Simon Property Group Inc., retailer Walmart Inc. and software giant Oracle Corp., according to people involved with and briefed on the project. Simon Property is fighting to keep shoppers who now prefer to buy what they need on Amazon; Walmart is competing with Amazon over retail sales; and Oracle is battling Amazon over a $10 billion Pentagon cloud-computing contract.

The grass-roots support cited by the group was also not what it appeared to be. The labor union says it was listed as a member of the group without permission and says a document purporting to show that it gave permission has a forged signature. The Boston professor says the group, with his permission, ghost-wrote an op-ed for him about Amazon but that he didn’t know he would be named as a member. The California businessman was dead for months before his name was removed from the group’s website this year.

Free and Fair Markets, or FFMI, declined to reveal its funders or disclose if it has directors or a chief executive.

A lot more at the very long and detailed source.

Love'em or hate'em as you will.
Just be aware of where your "facts" come from.

[theducks]

Amazon and Google (there are probably lots more) have their down side
BUT
These also have a BIG upside;
Look at Amazons warehouse automation, data center efficiency work.

And Google. I can't even guess. I see their Self driving Cars, Google Maps (free to any device), Voice controlled searches (free to any device) as a huge contribution to the users of the world that were not even their primary function (Search based Advertising).

What has Apple done outside Product development (and some of that IS spectacular, but so is the $$)? OK I forgot I-tunes (which I have not used in almost a decade)

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Love'em or hate'em as you will.

They deserve neither my love nor my hate. I figure we'll just continue to use each other.

[fjtorres]

Amazon's AWS has done a lot to promote cloud computing and built most of it on agnostic solutions and Open Source. And that is what has them leading in the $10B procurement that drew Oracle into this scam.
Note that neither IBM nor Microsoft--also contesting this jackpot--accepted the invitation to astroturf. They're competing the old-fashioned way. With open lobbying.

To me it's not about Amazon but about the ethics of the companies supporting the astroturfing. It's like the old lawyer saw:

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

― Carl Sandburg

In this case, neither quality, convenience, nor price are with them, so they call in the dept of dirty tricks.
It would be good to see a list of everybody playing the astroturf game, just to know who to avoid.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

They deserve neither my love nor my hate. I figure we'll just continue to use each other.

When appropriate, right?
They're tools, not a cult.
Use them as long as they're useful.



But to some they're angels and to others devils.
Not sure why. It's like the Apple fights...

[Nausicaa]

Natural monopolies don't exist for long, people are already free to buy from elsewhere.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

A
To me it's not about Amazon but about the ethics of the companies supporting the astroturfing. It's like the old lawyer saw:

I think Amazon is morally and ethically bankrupt, but I think that of every corporation, and every politician, without a single exception. This astroturfing though is a nice reminder that no matter how big a megacorp is, it's still run by individual people: The personal animus between Ellison and Bezos is well-known, so it seems to me that the septuagenarian Larry is using his money to get others to do his ranting for him. Making the phrase "astroturfing" even more apt as it's one rich old white guy paying groups to shout at another rich not-so-old white guy "get off my lawn".

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

I think Amazon is morally and ethically bankrupt, but I think that of every corporation, and every politician, without a single exception. This astroturfing though is a nice reminder that no matter how big a megacorp is, it's still run by individual people: The personal animus between Ellison and Bezos is well-known, so it seems to me that the septuagenarian Larry is using his money to get others to do his ranting for him. Making the phrase "astroturfing" even more apt as it's one rich old white guy paying groups to shout at another rich not-so-old white guy "get off my lawn".

I'll put my faith in individuals but not in organizations. All organizations exist solely for their own benefit and the biggest is the worst and that would be the government.

I like buying from Amazon.

[leebase]

Apple doesn’t do theIf product development in public like Google....but....

There is all the renewable energy efforts by Apple. They are carbon neutral across the entire company now.

Their phones have a laundry list of environmental friendly initiatives.

They have a audit their entire manufacturing chain for child free work force.

All the medical studies they are supporting with Health Kit (which they made open for everyone).

WebKit, the heart of all mobile browsers...open source effort by Apple. (Google used for years but has is is moving on).

....

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by leebase

Apple
They have a audit their entire manufacturing chain for child free work force.
....

Or, not so much
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/0...ry_clw_report/

[leebase]

Apple does more for this than anybody. But it's a tough issue endemic to the region....NOT some "evil business practice of Apple's"

[Angst]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

This may belong elsewhere, move accordingly.

All those recent anti-Amazon reports? Not an accident.
At least one book-related story has quoted these folks.

From the WSJ, Via MSN:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...1_20190920_6_2

A lot more at the very long and detailed source.

Love'em or hate'em as you will.
Just be aware of where your "facts" come from.

Aside from Amazon's treatment of their warehouse workers as automatons, I have other reasons to shop elsewhere.

In recent months I have begun cutting back on my large purchases at Amazon. The main problem is that Amazon has become like Ebay: Too many fake products from too many vendors. You have no way of telling if the item you are getting is legitimate, or a cheap knock off. I want 100% assurance that what I buy from a merchant is legitimate. Amazon no longer gives that to me.

It started with buying expensive brand name toothbrushes that didn't work properly with my brand name electric toothbrush. Fake! Cheap brushes for an expensive price.

I was first alerted to fake merchandise when reading a review for Sony SD cards, along the lines of: "Beware, at least two sellers are selling substandard SD cards that aren't reliable."

I don't like "Buyer Beware" marketplaces like Ebay, or Amazon now! I have taken pains to make my last four large price tag purchases from more reputable sites. How do I know that the rechargeable batteries I just bought are legitimate, or are knock offs that will exhaust their usefulness in four months instead of four years.

I will still buy small products at Amazon, but for electronics and large items, I'll shop elsewhere, thank you.

Do you really want an instruction guide to help you determine if the items you buy from your favorite retailer are fake? If not, maybe its time to switch retailers.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by leebase

Apple does more for this than anybody. But it's a tough issue endemic to the region....NOT some "evil business practice of Apple's"

Agree 100%. My post was in response to the "Apple is extraordinary and without sin" tenor of the one to which I replied, particularly on the issue of labor practices.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

Agree 100%. My post was in response to the "Apple is extraordinary and without sin" tenor of the one to which I replied, particularly on the issue of labor practices.

No matter how you look at it. Apple is doing more to run their entire manufacturing chain with high standards than anybody else.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by leebase

No matter how you look at it. Apple is doing more to run their entire manufacturing chain with high standards than anybody else.

If it makes you happy to think that, fine. They're definitely no worse than any other major player, that's for sure. There is a very small company trying to provide a serious effort at ethical manufacture and supply, but I don't hold much hope for its chances of success.
https://www.fairphone.com/en/