Tor library embargo?

[John F]

I came across this:

https://www.libraryjournal.com/?deta...-Ebook-Embargo

And than tried to find the results of the embargo, and I couldn't find anything. Anyone hear anything (the effects of the library embargo on ebook sales)?

[pwalker8]

Haven't heard anything, but you might try checking to see if any of this month's or last month's Tor ebooks are on any of the library sites. If so, then odds are the results were not much of an effect.

[ottdmk]

I've run into this when requesting ebooks at the OPL. Six month embargo on library sales for new releases from Tor. (I was asking them for "They Told Me The Gun Wasn't Loaded.")

Come to think of it, I think six months might be up...

[JSWolf]

Tor is not banning their eBook from Overdrive. They are just delaying the release of new eBooks to Overdrive for some time to boost sales.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Tor is not banning their eBook from Overdrive. They are just delaying the release of new eBooks to Overdrive for some time to boost sales.

Close to my opinion other than changing your last words to "for some time in hopes of boosting sales". A forlorn hope in my not so humble opinion.

[GtrsRGr8]

Originally Posted by John F

I came across this:

https://www.libraryjournal.com/?deta...-Ebook-Embargo

And than tried to find the results of the embargo, and I couldn't find anything. Anyone hear anything (the effects of the library embargo on ebook sales)?

A very good informative and thought-provoking article. Thanks for posting it.

[binaryhermit]

I strongly suspect such a move is shortsighted.

But a lot of moves big publishers have done the past few years are shortsighted, such as agency pricing.

[fjtorres]

The OP has their terminology wrong.
Tor is windowing libraries, not embargoing.
They are delaying availability, not denying it.

https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...ibrary-ebooks/

It is a stupid, counterproductive move, given that libraries are known to be a net positive for sales by improving visibility of the works, but very much in line with historical BPH attitudes towards public libraries. Moves like this one, from 2011:

https://the-digital-reader.com/2011/...rom-overdrive/

If they had their druthers they *would* embargo libraries, permanently.
They still might.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The OP has their terminology wrong.
Tor is windowing libraries, not embargoing.
They are delaying availability, not denying it.

https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...ibrary-ebooks/

It is a stupid, counterproductive move, given that libraries are known to be a net positive for sales by improving visibility of the works, but very much in line with historical BPH attitudes towards public libraries. Moves like this one, from 2011:

https://the-digital-reader.com/2011/...rom-overdrive/

If they had their druthers they *would* embargo libraries, permanently.
They still might.

Or, it could be that since they actually have the real sales figures and not some consultant generated estimate, they are experimenting to see if there actually _is_ some sort of effect on the sales numbers. Well, gosh, that's what the article says they are doing.

Yea, I get the any stick to beat the publishers with mindset, but this seems to be a reasonable experiment. Given that publishers are in the business to sell books, I would suspect if the _real_ numbers show that if windowing ebooks to the library hurts their sales as you assert, they will stop doing it.

[AnemicOak]

Not the first time a publisher has windowed certain titles or even their entire new release catalog. Harper Collins tried it years ago (IIRC a 4 month window) and then walked back the decision and I believe PRH does it with certain author titles although not for as long of a period (IIRC a few weeks to a month).

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Not the first time a publisher has windowed certain titles or even their entire new release catalog. Harper Collins tried it years ago (IIRC a 4 month window) and then walked back the decision and I believe PRH does it with certain author titles although not for as long of a period (IIRC a few weeks to a month).

Late 2009.
Just before the great pbook price war of 2009 between Target, Walmart, and Amazon.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/books/21price.html

They windowed all ebooks. Everywhere. It hit the bottom line right away.
They retreated before the four months were up.

[Paperbackstash]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Or, it could be that since they actually have the real sales figures and not some consultant generated estimate, they are experimenting to see if there actually _is_ some sort of effect on the sales numbers. Well, gosh, that's what the article says they are doing.

Yea, I get the any stick to beat the publishers with mindset, but this seems to be a reasonable experiment. Given that publishers are in the business to sell books, I would suspect if the _real_ numbers show that if windowing ebooks to the library hurts their sales as you assert, they will stop doing it.

I agree with you. I know a lot of people are upset about this but without money, the publishers won't be able to stick around, so they do have to think about the bottom dollar. Of course banning libraries completely would be one disastrous no-no, but I can get some fluctuations with policies.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Paperbackstash

I agree with you. I know a lot of people are upset about this but without money, the publishers won't be able to stick around, so they do have to think about the bottom dollar. Of course banning libraries completely would be one disastrous no-no, but I can get some fluctuations with policies.

The thing about libraries is they can always buy the paper version of the book. It's not like the publishers are refusing to sell books. Windowing is fairly similar to the Hardback/paperback dynamic or even Hardback/tradeback/paperback dynamic. The idea is if you want it earlier, go ahead and pluck down your money.

My guess is that such things neither help nor hurt the sales figures but it's worth at least experimenting with to see what actually happens.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

... Windowing is fairly similar to the Hardback/paperback dynamic or even Hardback/tradeback/paperback dynamic. ...

... and the movie theatrical release vs cable vs DVD. The idea seems to have worked for ages. After all, there is a need to "shield" you first line vendors (book store or theaters) while not crippling the second tier (cable/DVD or libraries). The "magic" is in setting the delay window time properly, neither too long or too short.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The thing about libraries is they can always buy the paper version of the book. It's not like the publishers are refusing to sell books.

No, they're just refusing to sell accessible versions of books. That's the elephant in the room with this discussion.