What exactly is a kepub?

ZodWallop · 10-23-2018, 03:26 PM

I suspect this thread will quickly go over my novice-level knowledge, but:

I more or less understand that Kobo renders ePub/kepub with two different rendering engines (ADE/Nickle) which is why kepubs have features ePubs don't.

Kepubs appear to be ePubs with a bunch of different Kobo spans in them. I know I can open and edit kepubs with Sigil. So what do those spans do that an ePub can't do? Is there not a way for Kobo to have their engine just handle ePubs with kepub features rather than creating a new format? The thing I most rely on kepubs for (pages left in chapter rather than pages left in book) can be handled on the Nook using regular ePub files. I suspect most other features could also be handled by tweaking the engine rather than requiring a new format.

rashkae · 10-24-2018, 02:18 PM

The Kepub rendering engine does not include the Adobe SDK. Even if they tweaked the engine so it can figure out position without the spans, the one thing it can't do is open Adobe DRM books. (Twill be good ridance as far as I'm concerned.. I'm honestly surprised Kobo is still paying Adobe their ridiculous fees for book servers...

ZodWallop · 10-24-2018, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rashkae

The Kepub rendering engine does not include the Adobe SDK. Even if they tweaked the engine so it can figure out position without the spans, the one thing it can't do is open Adobe DRM books. (Twill be good ridance as far as I'm concerned.. I'm honestly surprised Kobo is still paying Adobe their ridiculous fees for book servers...

But since Adobe is still included on all Kobo readers, for ePub books, wouldn't it have made since to incorporate that in the first place?

Nooks read ePub and features available only in kepub on Kobo are available on the Nook. I guess I'm wondering if they should have just included the Adobe stuff in Nickle and used a single engine for a single format with all the bells and whistles available.

I freely admit I may be looking at this the wrong way, due to lack of knowledge. I know just enough to be dangerous.

robko · 10-24-2018, 08:52 PM

Part of the reason for kepub originally was support for vertical (vs left to right) languages (i.e. Japanese which was a key market for Kobo). This is stretching beyond my detailed knowledge, but roughly speaking the epub 2 standard doesn't support that and is what the adobe renderer included is based on. Kepub is close the epub 3 standard instead and it allows vertical languages. Since they were going to have to make their own renderer anyway, they probably figured (at least in part) that it was easier to put everything they wanted into it rather than split development between the 2 different renderers.
And I'm in the same boat that I know just enough to be dangerous

stumped · 10-25-2018, 02:00 AM

and having their own not-quite-epub format made the books in their store harder to pirate ( they thought), and made it more likely that readers would buy kobo readers to read them on.

DNSB · 10-25-2018, 02:11 AM

I would also mention using the ACCESS renderer makes reading an epub3 fixed layout book possible. Admittedly, I only own 4 FLO epubs but one friend of mine now owns about 30 for his 4 and 6 year old munchkins.

davidfor · 10-25-2018, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumped

and having their own not-quite-epub format made the books in their store harder to pirate ( they thought), and made it more likely that readers would buy kobo readers to read them on.

Except that they have a link to the download the epub version for almost every book in their library. That means if you can get the book to a device, you can also get the epub from the store and pirate it that way. And you don't need a Kobo device or app to read the book. Kobo don't push this as much as they did, but it is still there.

One of the advantages of their own format and provisioning system is that they will avoid the Adobe licence fee for any books that are downloaded directly to the device. And still offer DRM protection (for what it is worth).

DNSB · 10-25-2018, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

And still offer DRM protection (for what it is worth).

Most DRM reminds me of how the local police department refers to key in knob locks as friendship locks -- the only people they keep out are your friends.

ottdmk · 10-25-2018, 02:09 PM

DNSB: Awesome analogy! Love it! :-D

10-23-2018, 03:26 PM	#1
ZodWallop Gentleman and scholar Posts: 11,502 Karma: 111164374 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Space City, Texas Device: Clara BW; Nook ST w/Glowlight, Paperwhite 3	What exactly is a kepub? I suspect this thread will quickly go over my novice-level knowledge, but: I more or less understand that Kobo renders ePub/kepub with two different rendering engines (ADE/Nickle) which is why kepubs have features ePubs don't. Kepubs appear to be ePubs with a bunch of different Kobo spans in them. I know I can open and edit kepubs with Sigil. So what do those spans do that an ePub can't do? Is there not a way for Kobo to have their engine just handle ePubs with kepub features rather than creating a new format? The thing I most rely on kepubs for (pages left in chapter rather than pages left in book) can be handled on the Nook using regular ePub files. I suspect most other features could also be handled by tweaking the engine rather than requiring a new format.

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10-24-2018, 02:18 PM	#2
rashkae Wizard Posts: 1,277 Karma: 5935030 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Aura HD	The Kepub rendering engine does not include the Adobe SDK. Even if they tweaked the engine so it can figure out position without the spans, the one thing it can't do is open Adobe DRM books. (Twill be good ridance as far as I'm concerned.. I'm honestly surprised Kobo is still paying Adobe their ridiculous fees for book servers...

10-24-2018, 08:52 PM	#4
robko Wizard Posts: 2,454 Karma: 5469320 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kobo	Part of the reason for kepub originally was support for vertical (vs left to right) languages (i.e. Japanese which was a key market for Kobo). This is stretching beyond my detailed knowledge, but roughly speaking the epub 2 standard doesn't support that and is what the adobe renderer included is based on. Kepub is close the epub 3 standard instead and it allows vertical languages. Since they were going to have to make their own renderer anyway, they probably figured (at least in part) that it was easier to put everything they wanted into it rather than split development between the 2 different renderers. And I'm in the same boat that I know just enough to be dangerous

10-25-2018, 02:00 AM	#5
stumped Wizard Posts: 3,305 Karma: 10259306 Join Date: May 2016 Device: kobo forma, Kobo Libra, Huawei media Tab, fire HD10, PW3 HDX8.9,	and having their own not-quite-epub format made the books in their store harder to pirate ( they thought), and made it more likely that readers would buy kobo readers to read them on.

10-25-2018, 02:11 AM	#6
DNSB Bibliophagist Posts: 48,175 Karma: 174315444 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Vancouver Device: Kobo Sage, Libra Colour, Lenovo M8 FHD, Paperwhite 4, Tolino epos	I would also mention using the ACCESS renderer makes reading an epub3 fixed layout book possible. Admittedly, I only own 4 FLO epubs but one friend of mine now owns about 30 for his 4 and 6 year old munchkins.

10-25-2018, 02:09 PM	#9
ottdmk Wizard Posts: 1,224 Karma: 3804496 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Device: Kobo Libra 2, Lenovo Tab M10 FHD Plus, Lenovo Tab M9	DNSB: Awesome analogy! Love it! :-D

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