Original manga-style graphic novel

nekokami · 08-08-2008, 09:07 PM

Um. This is slightly embarrassing, but it's been suggested that I start a thread here telling people I'm working on a manga-style graphic novel.

There's a link in my signature line, but you have to register at that site to see the images, and they're reduced in size and resolution due to the limits of the site, so I also put them in my gallery here at MR:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/album.php?albumid=62

The photo gallery lists them from most recent to least recent, so go to the "last" image and use the "prev" button to navigate. I'll post additional pages as they are completed. I'm only up to 6 "finished" pages so far, though I've got the plot, dialogue, storyboards, etc. for rather more than that.

Synopsis:

Quote:

Younger son of a famous teahouse in Shiga Prefecture, Mitsunari has accepted an arranged engagement to Jyunko, only child of one of the most prestigious teahouses in Tokyo. Jyunko is beautiful, graceful, and kind. However, as he begins to get to know his betrothed, Mitsunari realizes that all is not as it seems....

Please be advised that this manga story contains some mature and controversial themes. Recommended audience: Older teens and up.

For the curious, I'm not actually much good at drawing. I use 3D software (usually Daz Studio, sometimes Carrara or Hexagon) to generate the images, then compose the pages using Manga Studio. I'm not completely happy with what happens to the images when they get imported to Manga Studio, so I'm still working on that part of the process.

Comments welcome, of course, either here, in the gallery, or in PM... whatever.

Edit: the link in my sig line now points to this thread. It used to point to http://artzone.daz3d.com/index.php?a...view&uid=20599 in case anyone cares.

zelda_pinwheel · 08-08-2008, 09:09 PM

yay ! go neko !!

go read it y'all, it's about to get really exciting.

Donnageddon · 08-08-2008, 10:24 PM

Wholly Cripes!! Get your sword! Grab your spear!

I gotta know what happens next!

It's looking great Mistress nekokami! Really great!

nekokami · 08-09-2008, 10:27 AM

Working on it today....

Sparrow · 08-09-2008, 11:33 AM

Hey, this looks intriguing

.

I've not read any manga-style stories before, and initially found myself just reading the text. Second time through I paid attention to the graphics as well, and then it gelled.

Good job and thanks Nekokami! Looking forward to the next installment

.

acidzebra · 08-09-2008, 02:09 PM

Nice, but the dithering is not the best I've seen - what process do you use to create the final images?

I've recently read Eden: It's an Endless World! by Hiroki Endo on the prs-505 and the dithering/general image quality produced by FangornUK's comiclrf script definitely looked better, perhaps you could run your source images through that?

For the rest it's great, but I've always been a sucker for CGI and manga, so any combination will sit well with me

nekokami · 08-09-2008, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the input.

As noted earlier, I generate my images using Daz Studio as 3d software (sometimes using Cararra for landscapes or Hexagon for model editing, and in one case I used a "comp" photo as a background). I use a Daz Studio plugin called pwToon to get the outlines, but for some elements, e.g. hair and eyes, I use pwSketch, because I like the way it looks better. (pwToon provides nice configurable outlines, and can do shading as zip tones, but doesn't convert color or patterns to b&w. pwSketch does, but doesn't do fixed-width outlines.)

Then I import the PNG files into Manga Studio, after setting up the panels. Manga Studio can convert to grayscale or can convert to screentone-- it doesn't handle colored image import (not that I want color for this anyway). I've been using the screentone setting, which I think is making the outlines a bit grainy. I also set this project up at 300dpi, which I think was an error. I thought it would be plenty given that I'd only be using 72 dpi in the screen version, but the way Manga Studio converts to screentones introduces a lot of pixelation, even though I have screentones set to 85 lines (the maximum). From Manga Studio I output JPG files at 300 dpi. The result is what you see in my gallery here at MR... except that MR automatically reduces file size and so I may be losing some image definition there. At Artzone I'm restricted in filesize, so I manually reduce the JPG file dimensions, usually with Fireworks.

Things I'm thinking of trying:

a - converting the various color/pattern files ("textures") to b&w screentone patterns and then applying them in Daz Studio, and importing the resulting rendered images to Manga Studio with minimal image conversion-- this should greatly improve the crispness of the outlines.

b - Importing the images to Manga Studio as grayscale, rather than converting to tone. I don't know how this would look in print, but it would probably look a lot better on the screen, as screentones actually don't display well at 72 dpi.

c - Either way, I might redo the existing pages at 600 dpi, though that would generate some really huge JPG files, and I wouldn't be able to post them at MR or AZ at that file size.

I may post a couple of examples of my image conversion experiments in this area. I'd love to get comments about which results look best to folks when viewing online. The odds of printing ever being much of a concern for this title are pretty low, after all.

nekokami · 08-09-2008, 07:35 PM

Well, I tried importing to grayscale rather than converting to tone in Manga Studio, and the pages look much nicer while I'm looking at them in Manga Studio, but the export still apparently converts to screentone.

I did update page 6 slightly to make it more clear that Miyako, who has just arrived on the scene, is carrying gardening implements and not just random sticks.

nekokami · 08-09-2008, 10:10 PM

Page 7 is up. Sorry, the ninjas will be in the next page. (Glimpses, anyway!)

Patricia · 08-09-2008, 11:19 PM

It's intriguing. I want to know what happens next.

(The kimono sleeves aren't entirely accurate, but I doubt whether that's very important.)

Donnageddon · 08-10-2008, 12:02 AM

Tessen and Shuriken!

I know you can't rush art, but this is gonna be painful having this one page at a time.

Thanks nekokami!

IceHand · 08-10-2008, 05:59 AM

Hm, do you mind showing me one of the PNG files before you imported it to Manga Studio? I'd like to experiment with different conversion methods, maybe you'll like one of them.

GeoffC · 08-10-2008, 06:19 AM

looking forward to seeing how this progresses....

nekokami · 08-10-2008, 01:21 PM

I did some more experimenting with image export and I'm considerably happier with the results. Readers might want to check the album here. Comments appreciated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

It's intriguing. I want to know what happens next.

(The kimono sleeves aren't entirely accurate, but I doubt whether that's very important.)

I know the kimono don't look quite right. I've actually made several in "real life," from traditional patterns. There are major problems with getting the 3-d software I use to handle the sleeves correctly.

Hopefully it doesn't get in the way of the story too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceHand

Hm, do you mind showing me one of the PNG files before you imported it to Manga Studio? I'd like to experiment with different conversion methods, maybe you'll like one of them.

As noted above, I did experiment with different aspects of the import/export process. It's not a problem with how the files get imported to Manga Studio (though there are some stubborn format problems that I still want to chase down). It's a problem with how Manga Studio exports the files. It wants to convert every page to a "screentone" version, even if I want to keep grayscale.

I ended up using a 25% view in Manga Studio and taking a screen shot, which seems really lame, but at least the results are viewable online.

Scott McCloud, one of my own favorite American comic artists, has some excellent advice about online display of art, and one of his recommendations is not to use crosshatching or screentone, which are designed to allow display of different shades of gray in printing. At 72dpi they look pretty bad, whereas just using a shade of gray can look fine. So that's what I'll be aiming for in the online version from now on, I think (and I rather doubt there will ever be a print version).

Patricia · 08-10-2008, 05:52 PM

But don't let my trivial comment re sleeves discourage you. I'm really looking forward to the next installment.

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08-08-2008, 09:09 PM	#2
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	yay ! go neko !! go read it y'all, it's about to get really exciting.

08-08-2008, 10:24 PM	#3
Donnageddon Now you lishen here... Posts: 2,494 Karma: 479498 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle-ish Device: Sony PRS-650. Kobo Touch, Kindle Fire	Wholly Cripes!! Get your sword! Grab your spear! I gotta know what happens next! It's looking great Mistress nekokami! Really great!

08-09-2008, 10:27 AM	#4
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Working on it today....

08-09-2008, 11:33 AM	#5
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	Hey, this looks intriguing . I've not read any manga-style stories before, and initially found myself just reading the text. Second time through I paid attention to the graphics as well, and then it gelled. Good job and thanks Nekokami! Looking forward to the next installment .

08-09-2008, 02:09 PM	#6
acidzebra Liseuse Lover Posts: 869 Karma: 1035404 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Netherlands Device: PRS-505	Nice, but the dithering is not the best I've seen - what process do you use to create the final images? I've recently read Eden: It's an Endless World! by Hiroki Endo on the prs-505 and the dithering/general image quality produced by FangornUK's comiclrf script definitely looked better, perhaps you could run your source images through that? For the rest it's great, but I've always been a sucker for CGI and manga, so any combination will sit well with me

08-09-2008, 05:56 PM	#7
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Thanks for the input. As noted earlier, I generate my images using Daz Studio as 3d software (sometimes using Cararra for landscapes or Hexagon for model editing, and in one case I used a "comp" photo as a background). I use a Daz Studio plugin called pwToon to get the outlines, but for some elements, e.g. hair and eyes, I use pwSketch, because I like the way it looks better. (pwToon provides nice configurable outlines, and can do shading as zip tones, but doesn't convert color or patterns to b&w. pwSketch does, but doesn't do fixed-width outlines.) Then I import the PNG files into Manga Studio, after setting up the panels. Manga Studio can convert to grayscale or can convert to screentone-- it doesn't handle colored image import (not that I want color for this anyway). I've been using the screentone setting, which I think is making the outlines a bit grainy. I also set this project up at 300dpi, which I think was an error. I thought it would be plenty given that I'd only be using 72 dpi in the screen version, but the way Manga Studio converts to screentones introduces a lot of pixelation, even though I have screentones set to 85 lines (the maximum). From Manga Studio I output JPG files at 300 dpi. The result is what you see in my gallery here at MR... except that MR automatically reduces file size and so I may be losing some image definition there. At Artzone I'm restricted in filesize, so I manually reduce the JPG file dimensions, usually with Fireworks. Things I'm thinking of trying: a - converting the various color/pattern files ("textures") to b&w screentone patterns and then applying them in Daz Studio, and importing the resulting rendered images to Manga Studio with minimal image conversion-- this should greatly improve the crispness of the outlines. b - Importing the images to Manga Studio as grayscale, rather than converting to tone. I don't know how this would look in print, but it would probably look a lot better on the screen, as screentones actually don't display well at 72 dpi. c - Either way, I might redo the existing pages at 600 dpi, though that would generate some really huge JPG files, and I wouldn't be able to post them at MR or AZ at that file size. I may post a couple of examples of my image conversion experiments in this area. I'd love to get comments about which results look best to folks when viewing online. The odds of printing ever being much of a concern for this title are pretty low, after all.

08-09-2008, 07:35 PM	#8
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Well, I tried importing to grayscale rather than converting to tone in Manga Studio, and the pages look much nicer while I'm looking at them in Manga Studio, but the export still apparently converts to screentone. I did update page 6 slightly to make it more clear that Miyako, who has just arrived on the scene, is carrying gardening implements and not just random sticks.

08-09-2008, 10:10 PM	#9
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Page 7 is up. Sorry, the ninjas will be in the next page. (Glimpses, anyway!)

08-09-2008, 11:19 PM	#10
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	It's intriguing. I want to know what happens next. (The kimono sleeves aren't entirely accurate, but I doubt whether that's very important.)

08-10-2008, 12:02 AM	#11
Donnageddon Now you lishen here... Posts: 2,494 Karma: 479498 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle-ish Device: Sony PRS-650. Kobo Touch, Kindle Fire	Tessen and Shuriken! I know you can't rush art, but this is gonna be painful having this one page at a time. Thanks nekokami!

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08-10-2008, 06:19 AM	#13
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	looking forward to seeing how this progresses....

08-10-2008, 05:59 AM	#12
IceHand Linux User Posts: 323 Karma: 13682 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany Device: Kindle 3	Hm, do you mind showing me one of the PNG files before you imported it to Manga Studio? I'd like to experiment with different conversion methods, maybe you'll like one of them.

08-10-2008, 05:52 PM	#15
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	But don't let my trivial comment re sleeves discourage you. I'm really looking forward to the next installment.