Another "which one do I buy?" post ...

[seeker]

Hi Everybody,

First of all, sorry for another "which one do I buy" post!!

I've been lurking in this forum for the last 10 odd days and have tried to read as much as I can about ebook readers (including all 50+ pages about Astak). But I still haven't been able to arrive at something that might satisfy my requirements which (I think) are simple.

1. I need something that is not expensive ($250 - $300) - I live in a developing country (India currently) so can't afford to spend that much on an ebook reader.

2. It must support PDF and HTML - others are "bonus". I will be using the reader to read a lot of technical stuff - they won't necessarily have a lot of diagrams but their availability is mainly PDF so it would be great if PDF is supported by the reader. As for reflowing PDF ... I don't think that is a big requirement for now

3. Must be able to read in low light conditions: I will spending a large part of my time reading on the bus on my way home from work ... its usually dark by that time. So that probably excludes all the e-ink readers .

4. It cannot be a UMPC, cannot have a camera: My workplace is paranoid about security and so does not allow personal cameras and laptops.

5. It should not require any special operating system (in particular, m$ windoze) to work with it. It shouldn't force me to use Windoze just to download some material to it - I'm a Linux user and am not comfortable in the world of windoze.

6. Shouldn't be a windoze based solution: I don't want to worry about viruses getting into my reader!!!

7. WiFi/Bluetooth/foo/bar - not required. If I want to access the net I'd rather use my PC.

8. Ebook store support not required ... I don't read that much fiction, etc. ... I'm quite a geek and I've got enough of geek stuff to read !

9. It need not be fashionable - I'm not trying to make any fashion statement ... I'm too old to make fashion statements .

After searching around I found that the Nokia 770 seems to fit the bill (it has extras, but thats OK) - its price has dropped to $100 on E-Bay (US though) and it has a PDF reader and backlight for low light conditions. HOWEVER, I also found out that 770 carries the risk of the WSOD, so I've had to (very, very reluctantly) drop it .

I'll be moving on to China soon and so I naturally considered Hanlin V3 - that too seemed to fit the bill except for the lighting (but at least worth considering). However, the company advertises $299 in its English web page but 2980RMB for the Chinese market in its Chinese web page. 2980RMB = $438! Thats daylight robbery !!!!!

Astak was looking good until its price-tag came out. It seems like just a Hanlin V3 and costs the same, so thats out too.

Sony 505 requires windoze. Also, not available worldwide.

Kindle - totally closed so my pockets are totally closed to it too!!

Cybook Gen3 - too much $$$ .

So, is my case hopeless ? Any advice/suggestions/tips from experienced folks here?

Thanks for reading this far .

[ashkulz]

Hello seeker, welcome to Mobileread!

Looking at your requirements, I don't think that any device will meet your requirements In case you're near Mumbai, you're welcome to see my 1200 or 1150 (but you can't get them here directly, anyway).

[daffy4u]

Would an iPod Touch work for you?

[bbusybookworm]

Hi Seeker and welcome to this forum.

I'll have offered to show off my Gen 3 and PRS 500 to you, but I'm no longer in Delhi so Can't do that.

Originally Posted by seeker

1. I need something that is not expensive ($250 - $300) - I live in a developing country (India currently) so can't afford to spend that much on an ebook reader.

This is the hardest part, as most of the current readers are close to or above the $300 mark. You might be able to get an old Sony PRS-500 for about $ 150-200 but you'll still have to pay shipping & Customs if you get it delivered to India and that will probably cost you another $70 to $100.
But It may still not meet your needs.

2. It must support PDF and HTML

Well All the main three, Namely Sony PRS - 500/505 , Cybook Gen 3, Hanlin V3 /Bebook support PDF so you have a choice. And While the Sony 505 is the only one that has reflowability, all the others do a reasonably decent job of displaying PDF's.

Unfortunately, the Sony's will not display Html without conversion. And while there are great utilities like Caliber to simplify that, it is still something to keep in mind.

3. Must be able to read in low light conditions: I will spending a large part of my time reading on the bus on my way home from work ... its usually dark by that time. So that probably excludes all the e-ink readers .

True, but you could always attach a clip on reading light, and i've seen them for sale for a couple of hundred rupees.

This way, you still have the advantage of being able to read in full sunlight, which you would probably not get with a LCD screen.

4. It cannot be a UMPC, cannot have a camera: My workplace is paranoid about security and so does not allow personal cameras and laptops.

Well, If not looking at E-ink, you have the option of a Older PDS like the HP Ipaq series, or Palm Tungsten , or an iPod Touch.

I Can't comment on the Ebook wise as i've never even seen one, let alone used one.

5. It should not require any special operating system (in particular, m$ windoze) to work with it. It shouldn't force me to use Windoze just to download some material to it - I'm a Linux user and am not comfortable in the world of windoze.

That's one drawback of the Sony PRS 500 that it does not show up as USB device. you need a Program to transfer files over. And the official software is windows only .

Luckily Kovid has developed a great replacement in Caliber and you can use it manage your reader (500/505) in Linux and OS X as well as Windows. The only drawback is that you can not purchase books from the Sony store with this.

The advantage of the Gen 3 and the Bebook is that they show up as USB mass storage devices so you can just drag and drop stuff onto them. Also, you can purchase books from them easily without having to install any software as they support Mobipocket, and that just requires you to enter the device PID when you buy the book and download it and transfer to the device.

6. Shouldn't be a windoze based solution: I don't want to worry about viruses getting into my reader!!!

Gen 3 and Bebook are both linux based. The upcoming Astek is expected to be based on Win CE.

8. Ebook store support not required ... I don't read that much fiction, etc. ... I'm quite a geek and I've got enough of geek stuff to read !

True, but it is nice to have it available for the times you might need it.
Gen 3 and Bebook can use any Mobipocket reseller, and there are a lot of them.

The Sony can use any stores which offer PDF /EPub With Adobe DE, which againg is a windows only solution.

9. It need not be fashionable - I'm not trying to make any fashion statement ... I'm too old to make fashion statements .

Still, It's nice to look at pretty stuff, and the Sony is the best looking of the bunch.

A

fter searching around I found that the Nokia 770 seems to fit the bill (it has extras, but thats OK) - its price has dropped to $100 on E-Bay (US though) and it has a PDF reader and back light for low light conditions. HOWEVER, I also found out that 770 carries the risk of the WSOD, so I've had to (very, very reluctantly) drop it .

Have you considered its successor the N800, which is selling for about $175-200 in the US. You'll shell out for some accessories, but you can always spread that over time.

Its also Currently being supported by the Latest updates to the OS so its worth a look. And being Linux, you'll brobaly be right at home.

I'll be moving on to China soon and so I naturally considered Hanlin V3 - that too seemed to fit the bill except for the lighting (but at least worth considering). However, the company advertises $299 in its English web page but 2980RMB for the Chinese market in its Chinese web page. 2980RMB = $438! Thats daylight robbery !!!!!

Have you considered mailing them to confirm the Chinese price. It may be that the web page is wrong / or of date. Worth a try.

Or you could always try purchasing from one of the resellers (eg. Bebook) and get it shipped to India or even china if it workes out cheaper.

Astak was looking good until its price-tag came out. It seems like just a Hanlin V3 and costs the same, so thats out too.

And It's still not out, so the price is also still not final.

Sony 505 requires windoze. Also, not available worldwide.

True, but you can find sellers on ebay who will ship worldwide, and if you're careful, the Warranty, or lack off should not be that much of an issue.

That's How I got my Prs 500 after all.

Cybook Gen3 - too much $$$ .

The Price might go down you know. The UK Price being provided by WH Smith is £ 180 pounds and includes the case, so if this continues, we might get a price drop from Bookeen sometime in the near future (We Hope).


So In Summary, In e-in devices if you'r willing to accept old tech, you could probably get the Sony PRS 500 well within your budget. It is however not as nice as the newer screens on the new devices, so be aware.

It is also probably not going to get much support from Sony any more, so you'll b dependant on the community which however is quiet active.

The other option is to get Something like the Hanlin V3 / Bebook, as while I have and love the Gen 3, until Bookeen reduces the prices is a bit too expensive. You may have to up you budget a little, but you'll get a new gen device, which as a proactive community behind it bring updates. It also has Folder View (Which none of the others do) and supports the most formats right now.(For which formats check out the Comparison matrix in the Wiki.)

Finally you could go for one of the non e-ink devices like a Windows Mobile PDA (You'll have to look around for one without a camera, which is hard to find), a Palm OS Device like the Tungsten (however which is on its way out) iPod Touch, or a Nokia N800/810. The problem with one of these option is that you're going to need windows to load stuff onto them (except for the Nokia's). You might be able to get away with using an emulator like Wine but no guarantees.


Hope this helps.

[wallcraft]

An alternative to the Nokia 770 would be to buy a N800 and physically remove the camera. I have never heard of anyone doing this, but it should be possible. The 770/N800 really is probably the best fit to your needs. FBReader works great on my 770. I don't read PDFs on mine, but I have seen reports of happy PDF readers - even on the small screen.

[MrFinch]

Aaaaa, quite the conundrum! My advice (for what it's worth) is to hit eBay and grab a second-hand PDA. Here's my rationale:

Originally Posted by seeker

1. I need something that is not expensive ($250 - $300) - I live in a developing country (India currently) so can't afford to spend that much on an ebook reader.

Easy. The Price Is Right, as they say.

2. It must support PDF and HTML - others are "bonus". I will be using the reader to read a lot of technical stuff - they won't necessarily have a lot of diagrams but their availability is mainly PDF so it would be great if PDF is supported by the reader. As for reflowing PDF ... I don't think that is a big requirement for now

Yep. HTML and PDF support is available. Although the screen is small, as you say most of your PDF's are not diagram based, but just available in PDF and theres plenty of free and easy PDF to HTML converting solutions out there.

3. Must be able to read in low light conditions: I will spending a large part of my time reading on the bus on my way home from work ... its usually dark by that time. So that probably excludes all the e-ink readers .

PDA-yay for backlit!

4. It cannot be a UMPC, cannot have a camera: My workplace is paranoid about security and so does not allow personal cameras and laptops.

no problemos there. Plenty of PDA's without cameras

5. It should not require any special operating system (in particular, m$ windoze) to work with it. It shouldn't force me to use Windoze just to download some material to it - I'm a Linux user and am not comfortable in the world of windoze.

no problemos there either-plenty of Linux sync solutions out there (yay for open source!)

6. Shouldn't be a windoze based solution: I don't want to worry about viruses getting into my reader!!!

aha-now, EVEN IF you go for a Pocket PC, powered by Windows Mobile, you will be using a Linux box to sync and move content around-which makes your home box the ultimate firewall. As long as you dont use the PDA for wi-fi internet, your chances of viruses are COMPLETELY ZERO. Besides, Ive never heard of a virus for Windows Mobile. Doesnt mean they dont exist of course, but Ive never heard of them..Anyway! Virus Safe!

7. WiFi/Bluetooth/foo/bar - not required. If I want to access the net I'd rather use my PC.

aha. See above then. Safe as houses, and most of the older, cheaper PDA's dont offer it as standard anyway.

8. Ebook store support not required ... I don't read that much fiction, etc. ... I'm quite a geek and I've got enough of geek stuff to read !

No problems here.

9. It need not be fashionable - I'm not trying to make any fashion statement ... I'm too old to make fashion statements .

And no problems here either!

[seeker]

First of all, thanks to everybody who replied to the post.

Originally Posted by bbusybookworm

Hi Seeker and welcome to this forum.
And While the Sony 505 is the only one that has reflowability, all the others do a reasonably decent job of displaying PDF's.

I'm actually toying with the idea of studying the 1000+ pages of the PDF spec and coming out with a reader myself. Of course a) I wouldn't hold my breath for that to come out and b) Its just a fantasy right now , heh, heh. But I'm going off topic ...

Unfortunately, the Sony's will not display Html without conversion. And while there are great utilities like Caliber to simplify that, it is still something to keep in mind.

I think thats the problem I find with Sony - they're quite xenophobic about their technology ... they're famous for being closed and proprietary! Great technology but not so open access . Makes me wary of them (esp. after the CD rootkit fiasco but then I digress again).

you could always attach a clip on reading light

Yes, that is an option I've kept open if I could find an eink based reader thats cheap enough. If I can buy a Hanlin for < $300 then I probably will buckle under the temptation .

This way, you still have the advantage of being able to read in full sunlight, which you would probably not get with a LCD screen.

Actually I don't see myself reading outdoors too much ... I want the reader to use the idle time when commuting and when attending useless meetings. Of course, also when I wind up for the day in bed .

Luckily Kovid has developed a great replacement in Caliber and you can use it manage your reader (500/505) in Linux and OS X as well as Windows.

Yes, I saw that too and Kovid does show up here in these forums now and then . My door to Sony isn't completely closed because of this one thing .

Have you considered its successor the N800, which is selling for about $175-200 in the US.
And being Linux, you'll brobaly be right at home.

Yes, everything is right about it ... except the camera! Aaargh, why don't these companies realise that not everybody needs a camera . If it didn't have a camera I wouldn't have needed to post such a long post!

That's How I got my Prs 500 after all.

Will PM you on that soon.

Hope this helps.

A lot .

Originally Posted by MrFinch

PDA-yay for backlit!

MrFinch, to be honest, this post started after I read your thread about LCD backlit readers ... that is what led me to Nokia 770 . Did you finally settle down on a reader? If so, which one?

[bbusybookworm]

[QUOTE=seeker;261016]

No worries, Glad to help out (after all it does give me the chance to sprout off and sound like I actually know something )

Actually I don't see myself reading outdoors too much ... I want the reader to use the idle time when commuting and when attending useless meetings. Of course, also when I wind up for the day in bed .

To tell you the truth most of us tend to read mostly indoors as well. The main benefit you get besides the daylight visibility, which is actually most important to me is that the lack of back light means that my head doesn't hurt that much. I spend more then enough time in front of a LCD screen, that I can appreciate the break my eyes get.

Also, I've been an avid reader of e-books for a few years, well before I got my first e-ink reader, reading on pocket pc's like my Ipaq, a Qtek 1010 and finally a Imate KJam. and while it was fine for travel and a quick read for a few minutes, for longer sessions, I preferred paper books. Now, after using e-ink, I tend to find paper books a bit awkward to read.

Yes, everything is right about it ... except the camera! Aaargh, why don't these companies realise that not everybody needs a camera . If it didn't have a camera I wouldn't have needed to post such a long post!

Well you could always go the DIY route and remove the camera. You could with a few tools take it off in a couple of minutes. Heck any local cellphone repair guy could do it for you without damaging the rest of the device.

Will PM you on that soon.

No real mystery about that. I just looked around on e-bay and found a guy who had a good rep, and had it mailed to me. as I was in the UK at that time, it was pretty simple.

I did have to pay VAT on it, which inflated the final price, and you'll probably run into the same problem if you get it delivered to India. Think the duty on electronics is 20% of the declared value, but I'm not sure so you should probably check it out. But it will probably be a bit of a hassle.

The best option if you ave someone coming back from the US / UK is to have it delivered to their place and have them carry it over for you.

[seeker]

[QUOTE=bbusybookworm;261035]

Originally Posted by seeker

Well you could always go the DIY route and remove the camera.

Yes, I'm considering that as the last alternative. Was just hoping I won't have to go that far.

No real mystery about that. I just looked around on e-bay and found a guy who had a good rep, and had it mailed to me. as I was in the UK at that time, it was pretty simple.

Haha, you read my mind like a, ... a, ... an ebook .

Thanks again !