Boox Max 2 - poor quality and problem with returns to ereader-store.de

[marcosscriven]

Hi all

I purchased the Boox Max 2 from an online store based in Germany: https://ereader-store.de/en/

From the description, it looked like just the thing I needed; a large device for sheet music and also a monitor I could use outside in the sunshine.

It arrived yesterday (here in London), and I was immediately very disappointed. The problems are myriad:

• Device turns off when you place it on a music stand
• Monitor function often doesn't work (it simply says 'failed')
• Even when it does work, latency is very high, and using a mouse or scrolling is almost impossible
• English language in the software has numerous errors
• Battery charge goes down extremely quickly
• Device completely shuts down after a short period (presumably in an attempt to mitigate its extremely poor power management), and takes over 30 seconds to turn on again.
• Screen is surprisingly glossy, meaning it can't easily be used in bright light.

It's clear to me the Boox Max 2 does not conform to its description, and yet the ereader-store.de is insisting I pay postage to return. Much worse than this, and quite shockingly, the owner has immediately become quite defensive and sarcastic, despite my reasonable request. Why should I have to pay to return a product that does not conform to its description and expected use?

Also amazingly, after I made the RMA, he changed the return policy wording!

Here's the original: https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

And here's the latest: https://ereader-store.de/en/content/6-returns

I analysed the change with 'diff':

diff old-return-wording new-return-wording
21c21,23
< Please note that shipping and possible payment fees are the client’s responsibility, except if the product does not conform to the description of said product (the client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods).
---
> Please note that shipping and possible payment fees are the client’s responsibility. The client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods.
>
>


Has anyone else had issues with this retailer? Can you suggest what I can do here?

[oranges]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

Here's the original: https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

And here's the latest: https://ereader-store.de/en/

I analysed the change with 'diff':

diff old-return-wording new-return-wording
21c21,23
< Please note that shipping and possible payment fees are the client’s responsibility, except if the product does not conform to the description of said product (the client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods).
---
> Please note that shipping and possible payment fees are the client’s responsibility. The client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods.
>
>


Has anyone else had issues with this retailer? Can you suggest what I can do here?

Booxtor -- thats kinda shady changing the shipping info . please connect with Onyx about the issues mentioned by marcosscriven and here, we are getting burned as early customers supporting your store

[marcosscriven]

I would have kept this just between myself and the retailer, but he really upset me by being quite rude.

Here's the most recent email and response. He gets quite sarcastic, asking if I'm talking about the Max 2 when clearly that's the only thing I've purchased from him:

Hi Marcos,

did you receive the Max2 or something else?

If you received Max2 - you have received product according to the description.

Sorry, but the "poor quality" of Max2 is your current private opinion at the first glance.

We have received lots of reports of very satisfied customers.
It is absolutely normal to dislike a product or to have higher expectations of the product than it currently offers, but you have accepted our terms and conditions, so please don't discuss returning costs if you are not satisfied with something on our products. Everything is accordingly to EU laws.


Best regards
Waldemar

[mdp]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

I would have kept this just between myself and the retailer, but he really upset me by being quite rude.

Here's the most recent email and response. He gets quite sarcastic, asking if I'm talking about the Max 2 when clearly that's the only thing I've purchased from him:

Sarcasm is something you read in it. It is not there.
The same for rudeness.

I am not discussing the agreement only because your case with Booxtor it not really my business.


EDIT: interesting, that remark about gloss. Not the right time of the day to verify under the sun, but I am checking the MaxCarta and the Max2 under artificial light and the screen shows the same reflections. I used the MaxCarta under the sun, and had no problem at all - not even the suspect that.

For the rest, who gathered a bit of information about the product in these very pages would have identified the significant issues reported as possible.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by mdp

Sarcasm is something you read in it. It is not there.
The same for rudeness.

I am not discussing your agreement because it not my business nor area.

How could I be talking about another product if that's the only one I've purchased from him? I can't see an interpretation other than sarcasm.

He also dismisses all of my concerns, and only seems to care about his profit.

And how would you account for changing the wording of the terms and conditions? That seems extremely underhanded to me.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by mdp

For the rest, who gathered a bit of information about the product in these very pages would have identified the significant issues reported as possible.

I was unfamiliar with this forum - if it had been linked to from their product page, I would not have purchased.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

How could I be talking about another product if that's the only one I've purchased from him? I can't see an interpretation other than sarcasm.

No, he meant "Was there an erroneous package swap, were you shipped a different product?" to a flat reading.

[marcosscriven]

Waldemar is accusing me of just wanting to 'play a little bit' with the device, and was never serious about keeping the device.

He wrote:

"To cause remarkable costs on sellers side just to play a little bit with a new device is not a good tone."

So I'm left with the option of paying just to return a product that isn't working as described. Astonished at quite how bad their service has been.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

And how would you account for changing the wording of the terms and conditions? That seems extremely underhanded to me.

IANAL. But John Everyman would have realized that that original wording, with reference to the "conformity", contained too large spaces for hermeneutics. And IANAL but that would always be valid whether implicit or explicit: in case you bought a [...]with 32GB[...] and you receive a [...]with 16GB[...] thing.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

So I'm left with the option of paying just to return a product that isn't working as described.

The product I received is working according to all the descriptions I remember...

(Well, would you wish to hear it, maybe allow me a piece of advice: you should in general gather information before doing any purchase, with relevance to whatever producer.)

[Booxtor]

I am sorry this case could confuse some of readers here. I never mind to offend the customer or be unfriendly. I also tried to support this customer in an objective way and to handle him exactly like any one else. Immediately after he asked for return I have helped him to manage it. The only problem was , he denied to pay shipping for return. This is a very unusual reaction. The customer also complained something on the device, which is normal for EINK devices (like occasional ghosting or slowness) . It is not a fault, but probably rather conflict of expectations and reality.

Also customer did not post my complete conversation (the thread contains 13 emails). In my email I also wrote: " am sorry. I am not native english speaker. If you consider some of my reply as rude or unfriendly, please excuse me.
I just try to be objective and to help you to understand how the cooperation of our store with customers works.
Just imagine. We already have paid shipping to UK via UPS (about EUR 40) and our payment fees (about EUR 17) will also not be refunded to us and cause cost on our side. Those part of costs remains mine. You however are not willing to be fair and share shipping costs at all (even accepted it in our shopping cart during check out). Additionally this is very unusual and time consuming problem. I have to reply to other customers needs support customers who keeps our store alive. So I am trying to express me in short sentences. Please don't consider it as rudeness."

Concerning complains:
-Using of Max2 in a book stand - if you want it just rotate the screen 180° and the power button don't affect your work in a book stand any more.
- Using as a monitor - is possible, but the customer needs to get used to some limitations (like slower mouse pointer) and also occasional problems during first setup.
-to expect perfect english translation in a Chinese product is a little bit far from reality. I also asked the customer to point me to the text parts with the problems in translation, which we could improve - he did not reply to it.
- Battery discharges quite quickly if you use the device as second monitor. It is recommended to connect to a 2A USB charger if you are going to use the device in this mode.
- automatic power off after particular time of inactivity is normal if you set it like this in the settings. Additionally Max2 tries to power off if the battery charge is too low in order to save the battery from too deep discharge. It is also normal for Li Po powered devices.
-Glossiness of the screen is same as Max or other modern EINK screens. Even white paper has particular glossiness.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

I am sorry this case could confuse some of readers here. I never mind to offend the customer or be unfriendly. I also tried to support this customer in an objective way and to handle him exactly like any one else. Immediately after he asked for return I have helped him to manage it. The only problem was , he denied to pay shipping for return. This is a very unusual reaction. The customer also complained something on the device, which is normal for EINK devices (like occasional ghosting or slowness) . It is not a fault, but probably rather conflict of expectations and reality.

Also customer did not post my complete conversation (the thread contains 13 emails). In my email I also wrote: " am sorry. I am not native english speaker. If you consider some of my reply as rude or unfriendly, please excuse me.
I just try to be objective and to help you to understand how the cooperation of our store with customers works.
Just imagine. We already have paid shipping to UK via UPS (about EUR 40) and our payment fees (about EUR 17) will also not be refunded to us and cause cost on our side. Those part of costs remains mine. You however are not willing to be fair and share shipping costs at all (even accepted it in our shopping cart during check out). Additionally this is very unusual and time consuming problem. I have to reply to other customers needs support customers who keeps our store alive. So I am trying to express me in short sentences. Please don't consider it as rudeness."

Booxtor (aka Waldemar)

Can you:

1. Answer each of the bullet points I raised at the beginning of this thread
2. Add these issues to your product description on your website
3. Explain why you go about removing terms from your agreements, just as a customer is trying to act upon them?

[forestfelix]

Originally Posted by mdp

No, he meant "Was there an erroneous package swap, were you shipped a different product?" to a flat reading.

No, it's clearly sarcasm. It's obvious from the E-Mail that the seller assumes Marcos has received the Max 2, therefore it's a rhetorical question.

As in
"The product does not work as described"
"Did you receive the Max 2? Well, yeah, then what are you complaing about, you got the product that was described."

If functions that were described on the product page are not working, the product is not as described. The changing of the return policy wording also seems inappropriate to me.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

Can you:[*]Answer each of the bullet points I raised at the beginning of this thread[*]Add these issues to your product description on your website[/LIST]

How very immensely unfunny.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by mdp

How very immensely unfunny.

It's not intended to be funny - why would think that it is? If @booxtor is serious about informing his customers, ought he not include a clear description of the limitations?