What is the Boox n96ml like as a tablet? (In a2 mode)

[Waiting4somethin]

I’d like to use this device for browsing, and as monitor, but I have some questions for users who already tried it.

1. A2 mode is supposed to stop flickering, for instance during web browsing. Are there any exceptions? For example it might flicker if I touch the browsers address bar.

2. If I run vnc viewer but use wireless mouse connected to pc, is it possible to use a2 mode to make this run smoother?

3. Can it run as monitor through usb?

I want to add the reason why I often emphasize the a2 aspect of these devices, which is because many of the videos online when showing web browser will often show us the web browser in normal refresh mode, which gives an impression that it can’t do any better.

Anyway, seems like a nice device.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Waiting4somethin

many of the videos online when showing web browser will often show us the web browser in normal refresh mode, which gives an impression that it can’t do any better.

Because there is nothing better than "normal mode" for rendering quality - which is paramount when you intend to read the screen contents.

I do not have a n96ml. Nonetheless, a few comments:

> 1. A2 mode is supposed to stop flickering, for instance during web browsing. Are there any exceptions? For example it might flicker if I touch the browsers address bar.

Is it possible that you are using automated Normal/A2 switch (e.g. switch to A2 upon scroll)?
In that case, impose A2 as default (through the icon in the statusbar).

> 2. If I run vnc viewer but use wireless mouse connected to pc, is it possible to use a2 mode to make this run smoother?

With A2 you will increase refresh speed, of course including mouse cursor update, up to 8 fps.

> 3. Can it run as monitor through usb?

I do not see why it should not - only, if you mention a VNC viewer you are already talking about a "monitor" function, which is most reasonable to demand through USB (although you have other options such as Wi-Fi and BlueTooth). You will find details in the "monitor" thread.

[Waiting4somethin]

Originally Posted by mdp

I do not have a n96ml. Nonetheless, a few comments:

I don’t have it either; I’m looking for a mid-range device to help with eye strain.

Whoop.

Originally Posted by mdp

Because there is nothing better than "normal mode" for rendering quality - which is paramount when you intend to read the screen contents.

I haven’t really had a problem reading web pages without refresh (my nook has norefresh), the flashing of eink refreshes in normal mode however seem to be a significant loss to productivity.

Originally Posted by mdp

Is it possible that you are using automated Normal/A2 switch (e.g. switch to A2 upon scroll)? In that case, impose A2 as default (through the icon in the statusbar).

I saw one YouTube video of this problem, though I can’t find it now. I have data limit. I was not aware of such a switch, perhaps this automated switch was the culprit?—I hope so. My wish is that when a2 is imposed as default, no android program will cause a flash.

Originally Posted by mdp

I do not see why it should not - only, if you mention a VNC viewer you are already talking about a "monitor" function, which is most reasonable to demand through USB (although you have other options such as Wi-Fi and BlueTooth). You will find details in the "monitor" thread.

Someone here says an eink device as slave is too laggy, I suppose negating any benefits of faster refresh modes. They also suggest that the n96ml cpu is too slow for browsing using the browser it has. I am therefore looking at the Icarus XL HD now as it has a better cpu.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Waiting4somethin

the flashing of eink refreshes in normal mode however seem to be a significant loss to productivity
[...]
My wish is that when a2 is imposed as default, no android program will cause a flash

Are you sure? You say that out of experience or as a prediction?
I personally have no problem with Grayscale Update mode's visual effect.

Originally Posted by Waiting4somethin

Someone here says an eink device as slave is too laggy, I suppose negating any benefits of faster refresh modes. They also suggest that the n96ml cpu is too slow for browsing using the browser it has. I am therefore looking at the Icarus XL HD now as it has a better cpu.

Current EPD screens certainly are less apt for production when used as monitors, if compared to standards.
Anyway, I don't think you could use the Icarus/Boyue as a monitor (by software limitations, not just because it's small or because you do not have a dithered A2).
I have it, I am not satisfied. In fact, the only occasions I had used it, after testing, is sometimes, seldom, as a web browser. And the absence of hardware keys meant a lot of slinging calibrated in measured gestures to contrast the momentum. Not to mention that the lack of a dithering implementation degrades the experience when scrolling etc., when switch to A2 is forced.

And CPU wise, you can get better than the RK3188 of the Icarus/Boyue. I am immensely glad that Onyx went for the RK3288 for the Max2. The difference is: "some" difference vs. "marked" difference.

[Waiting4somethin]

Originally Posted by mdp

Are you sure? You say that out of experience or as a prediction?

I would like to predict other devices, I’m only sure of my devices. I must admit the refresh on my Nook is very bad, it has a more cumbersome and longer flash than new devices. Though, while productivity is no doubt less impacted on new ones, flashing always looks disturbing to me.

I’m unsure what dithering is? Perhaps a video will make things clearer for us? If you skip to 1:31 in this video you will see someone browsing the internet on an a2 enabled Nook Simple Touch:

https://youtu.be/kBbl6egyPsQ

Is this much different to your Icarus? The Nook’s text seems legible to me, and although it has low FPS, this feels acceptable to me. It does not blur or distort as you see.

The problems of the Nook for me are screen space (6”), the websites often load slowly, and the response time on the Nook is not too fast. This can be seen when he draws at 2:20 in the video. The pixels update at an acceptable FPS, but the response time could be better. I hope the Icarus responds and loads websites faster and expect the stylus n96ml would have a quicker response.

Originally Posted by mdp

And the absence of hardware keys meant a lot of slinging calibrated in measured gestures to contrast the momentum.

Yes, fair point.

Originally Posted by mdp

Anyway, I don't think you could use the Icarus/Boyue as a monitor (by software limitations, not just because it's small or because you do not have a dithered A2).

Oh right. I wasn’t sure but I thought it might be possible after I saw an Icarus (which i see now is a different model) being used as monitor in another video.

Originally Posted by mdp

And CPU wise, you can get better than the RK3188 of the Icarus/Boyue. I am immensely glad that Onyx went for the RK3288 for the Max2

That’s top of the range, and therefore out of my price range.

[Waiting4somethin]

In addition to what I was saying about response, this element is apparently well handled by the remarkable tablet, which has a cpu slower than the Icarus (same as the n96ml though), the specs page states that it uses “Codex, a custom Linux-based OS optimized for low-latency e-paper”.

So latency is important, as well as page loading times.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Waiting4somethin

In addition to what I was saying about response, this element is apparently well handled by the remarkable tablet, which has a cpu slower than the Icarus (same as the n96ml though), the specs page states that it uses “Codex, a custom Linux-based OS optimized for low-latency e-paper”.

So latency is important, as well as page loading times.

Sorry - what latency are we talking about?
The latency of Remarkable's screen must be identical to that of the Onyx Max2's screen. Their «low-latency e-paper» expression must compare it to past or arcane e-paper products, or maybe Champollion will help translate.
With the current displays from E-Ink, latency is pretty much a physically constrained value, 125ms with A2 and more with other update modes.

I don't think that Android will add much to that latency.

[Waiting4somethin]

Originally Posted by mdp

Sorry - what latency are we talking about?
The latency of Remarkable's screen must be identical to that of the Onyx Max2's screen. Their «low-latency e-paper» expression must compare it to past or arcane e-paper products, or maybe Champollion will help translate.
With the current displays from E-Ink, latency is pretty much a physically constrained value, 125ms with A2 and more with other update modes.

I don't think that Android will add much to that latency.

Sorry...I posted the last one without much thought. Latency of touch or stylus input. I’ve heard reviewers saying remarkable responds to touch faster, and n96ml faster than some other ereader, or so. I don’t know if that quote is mentioning the same thing but I presumed so as it is designed as a notepad.