Newbie question about reading epubs online

[pittendrigh]

I want to make ebooks in epub3 format. I've installed various readers and creators (readium and calibre etc) on my desktop linux box.

I'm also reading Epub3 Best Practices from O'Reilly.

I have an entry-level question. I am probably missing something obvious.

I have several linux-based readers but they all seem to require the user to download the epub file to the local file system before reading it.

If the publisher doesn't care about DRM why can't the epub file be read directly, inside a browser, from a file (or an unzipped epub3 file) located on a remote web server? Why do I have to download the epub to the local file system first? (or do I?)

If epub3 could be read from a properly extended browser, from a remote location, without downloading to the local file system, wouldn't epub3 then become an interesting and entirely new way to create a website that looked and acted like an book? Complete with TOC navigation etc?

[theducks]

EPUB is a container.
In the end, the container needs to be downloaded so it can be(CRC) checked, and specific pieces unpacked (these establish the rules and what is availible

To do otherwise, requires a EPUB Viewer server that only renders the current screen full Sort of like Remote desktop connection or VNC... All the real work is done at the host end

[eschwartz]

And in fact, many ebook vendors provide a browser-based ereader.

Kindle Cloud, for example. I am pretty sure Kobo and Nook have similar, Google Play Books sure does, OverDrive has a Read Online thingy, etc.

...

There are also some services that let you upload EPUBs to read online. Booki.sh, for example (I think that got bought by OverDrive though).
Then there is the EPUBReader extension for Firefox.

calibre v3 will have an in-browser ereader too. You can actually beta the server today, using the command line `calibre-debug --new-server`.

Most of these methods use LocalStorage to cache the ebook contents for offline viewing.

[pittendrigh]

I'll keep looking. I've unpacked a few epub3 containers now. I think it would not be hard to write server side codes (perhaps with PHP) that unpack an epub3 on the server and then use it. A persistent data structure with resources and spine information could be saved in a common directory like /tmp on a linux web server. _SESSION variables could keep track of a current page number. Or what ever.

I'm just trying to get my sea legs. I'm reading. Will buy a few more books. At least one more from O'Reilly.

Epub3 Best Practices describes an epub3 container as "like a website in a zip file." So my first thought was "why not make it a web site?" Why not make a system that does NOT require the reader to pre-install software, download epubs and then hassle with "loading them." Why not just navigate to an online book, from any browser on any device, and read it?

I'm working on it. Some features, like overlays, would indeed be difficult to accomplish in a simple browser, without a plugin. But reproducing a TOC and basic forward and back reading, with the ability to save $_SESSION['currentPageNumber'] as a cookie, and to set a few book marks............would not be so hard.

I'm still a bit worried I'm missing a smoking gun brick wall that would make this impossible. But so far no such loaded cigar has surfaced. The longer I look the more possible it seems.

And not all that hard either.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by pittendrigh

I
Epub3 Best Practices describes an epub3 container as "like a website in a zip file." So my first thought was "why not make it a web site?" Why not make a system that does NOT require the reader to pre-install software, download epubs and then hassle with "loading them." Why not just navigate to an online book, from any browser on any device, and read it?

There have been browser-based book platforms. I don't believe any of them have lasted for any length of time or gained a lot of popularity. To this reader, they're deeply annoying to deal with, and I avoid them vigorously.

I sort of feel like you've started with the "how", instead of with the "why". What are you trying to achieve, and why, and who are your target market, and has anyone asked them what they want? Are you wanting to aim a new platform at people who've never read an ebook before? Or something else?

It's really not a particular hassle to install epub reader software/set up a device that reads epubs. A reader only has to set up such things once, and epub downloads of low-image books are tiny.

[pittendrigh]

RE> "the why part"

I am writing a book about boat building and fly fishing. It won't be profitable. Not much anyway. It's just a hobby I'm having fun with. I do NOT want to share royalties with a traditional paper technology book publisher or with Amazon or Apple. I want to make no money my own way. All by myself.

I have a website. I want to put my book on my website, in a way that looks and acts like a book. I'm a retired programmer with wide ranging skills. I think I can do this. I sell digital boat blueprints online so I already have my own web-based DRM system to work with. I've been selling digital blueprints since the late 1990s. Have a domain name that goes back to 1998. Readers cannot read the digital blueprints without buying a password.

I want my books to act the same way. Online. Available to any user on any device with any browser. If they want to download the epub and read it with Readium or Calibre they could do that too. I'm just widening the audience a bit. Overlays, now that I think about it, might not be all that hard either. They are defined and mapped in an XML file. And PHP does XPath nicely.

These discussions always help. I appreciate everybody's feedback.

[latepaul]

A few things which you may find interesting:

1) Google Play will allow you to upload up to 1000 of your own books. You can then read in the web based reader. The format is epub but I'm not sure if it's epub3 compatible.

2) I used to have an ereader app on my ownCloud installation. It meant I could open epubs in the browser. It worked but it wasn't the greatest experience. Since then I've moved to Nextcloud and not bothered to re-install the app but I notice it's still available and there are others. (do a search on apps.owncloud.com). Even if you didn't want to go to the trouble of setting up your own ownCloud/Nextcloud you can always look at the source.

3) I also used to use a Chrome extension that was an epub reader. It actually downloaded the files and cached them somewhere but it was not bad. I think it was this one - which seems to be unavailable now. Might be worth trying to contact the author.

4) From what I understand Calibre 3.0 will have a server with a built in web reader. However, I seem to recall Kovid's not a fan of epub3.

Finally just to echo meeera's point, using the current calibre-server I can download my books remotely easily enough, even directly into an app if it supports OPDS.

HTH

EDIT: I posted the above before I saw your reply to meeera.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by pittendrigh

RE> "the why part"

I am writing a book about boat building and fly fishing. It won't be profitable. Not much anyway. It's just a hobby I'm having fun with. I do NOT want to share royalties with a traditional paper technology book publisher or with Amazon or Apple. I want to make no money my own way. All by myself.

I have a website. I want to put my book on my website, in a way that looks and acts like a book. I'm a retired programmer with wide ranging skills. I think I can do this. I sell digital boat blueprints online so I already have my own web-based DRM system to work with. I've been selling digital blueprints since the late 1990s. Have a domain name that goes back to 1998. Readers cannot read the digital blueprints without buying a password.

I want my books to act the same way. Online. Available to any user on any device with any browser. If they want to download the epub and read it with Readium or Calibre they could do that too. I'm just widening the audience a bit. Overlays, now that I think about it, might not be all that hard either. They are defined and mapped in an XML file. And PHP does XPath nicely.

These discussions always help. I appreciate everybody's feedback.

Still working on that book I see. How is the book going?
Well now if you just want people to read it online or on any computer or tablet, why don't you just do what most craft sites do. Make it a PDF. Or you could make both.

Oh and one other little thing, rather you go big or stay small you are still required to pay taxes on any profits.

[DNSB]

Just to toss in my two cents worth, the Readium project has an extension implementing ReadiumJS for the Google Chrome web browser. This allows reading epub3 ebooks in the web browser though I suspect that a temporary copy is downloaded during the process. There is also a cross-browser version ( Readium CloudReader) but I haven't played with it so can't say much about it.

[djazz]

You can set up Readium on your web server. It requires no server code and loads epubs from uncompressed folders. Here's a book in my library: http://books.djazz.se/?epub=epub_content%2Fpink_eyes

[pittendrigh]

I'll look into Readium as a server. PDF is an abomination. In my not so humble opinion.

Ah. OK. I looked at your readium link to an epub. Interesting. I (for better or for worse) want my "book" to appear as the contents of a DIV, in addition to some minimal global navigation back to a surrounding website as a whole--without using an IFRAME. It might be possible. I'll look into that. That would solve my problem. Thank you! Good suggestion.

Someone else above asked "how is your book coming?" Quite well. Bits and pieces released in my niche circles have already been gaining attention. Other pieces have been published and well received in traditional glossy magazine format. The trouble with traditional magazines is they're dying out. They've been hit so hard by the internet they now pay the same money per article (to authors) as they did in the 1990s. "Instructions to authors" for magazine writers now often require articles to half as long as 20 years ago. Print costs are up, audiences are down and advertising is sparse. The times they are a changing.

By the way...........I've sold close to 3000 how to build a boat instruction sets, complete with digital blueprints over the years. Book like format would help my already existing format. I doubt more than 5% of my existing customers have an ebook reader already installed. If that many.

Here's a punchline: Years ago I had my entire "how to build a boat" offerings hidden behind a password barrier. Then I made the pages all public, with only the blueprints (dimensions and diagrams) hidden behind a password barrier. My sales shot up like a bottle rocket. People would read the free pages and then get hooked. Then they bought a password to see the rest.

A book in HTML website format, that looked and acted much like an epub with a reader, would do the same. The vast majority of all surfers still have no ebook reader installed. If they stumble across a website that looks like a book, offering most but not all of the book for free, they'll be more likely to spend some money to buy the entire book. At which point they could read it any way they like.

My 20 years experience with blueprints and how to build a boat instructions tells me an expanded audience for sample pages is the best sales technique there is.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pittendrigh

I'll look into Readium as a server. PDF is an abomination. In my not so humble opinion.

PDF is excellent for its intended purpose, which is to be a digital representation of a printed page. The problem occurs when people try to use it for tasks it was never intended for, such as reflowable ebooks. PDF is still the format of choice for academic journal articles, and likely to remain so for a very long time to come. It's a great format for use in scanning and digitizing existing books, where you want an exact digital reproduction of a printed page, and there any many books that would be difficult (if not impossible) to reproduce in any other format.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

PDF is excellent for its intended purpose, which is to be a digital representation of a printed page. The problem occurs when people try to use it for tasks it was never intended for, such as reflowable ebooks. PDF is still the format of choice for academic journal articles, and likely to remain so for a very long time to come. It's a great format for use in scanning and digitizing existing books, where you want an exact digital reproduction of a printed page, and there any many books that would be difficult (if not impossible) to reproduce in any other format.

I just want to add to your thought. Craft books with patterns and drawings are also much better as pdfs.

But if the OP wants to limit his options and his customer base, oh well.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by pittendrigh

I'll look into Readium as a server. PDF is an abomination. In my not so humble opinion.

Ah. OK. I looked at your readium link to an epub. Interesting. I (for better or for worse) want my "book" to appear as the contents of a DIV, in addition to some minimal global navigation back to a surrounding website as a whole--without using an IFRAME. It might be possible. I'll look into that. That would solve my problem. Thank you! Good suggestion.

Someone else above asked "how is your book coming?" Quite well. Bits and pieces released in my niche circles have already been gaining attention. Other pieces have been published and well received in traditional glossy magazine format. The trouble with traditional magazines is they're dying out. They've been hit so hard by the internet they now pay the same money per article (to authors) as they did in the 1990s. "Instructions to authors" for magazine writers now often require articles to half as long as 20 years ago. Print costs are up, audiences are down and advertising is sparse. The times they are a changing.

By the way...........I've sold close to 3000 how to build a boat instruction sets, complete with digital blueprints over the years. Book like format would help my already existing format. I doubt more than 5% of my existing customers have an ebook reader already installed. If that many.

Here's a punchline: Years ago I had my entire "how to build a boat" offerings hidden behind a password barrier. Then I made the pages all public, with only the blueprints (dimensions and diagrams) hidden behind a password barrier. My sales shot up like a bottle rocket. People would read the free pages and then get hooked. Then they bought a password to see the rest.

A book in HTML website format, that looked and acted much like an epub with a reader, would do the same. The vast majority of all surfers still have no ebook reader installed. If they stumble across a website that looks like a book, offering most but not all of the book for free, they'll be more likely to spend some money to buy the entire book. At which point they could read it any way they like.

My 20 years experience with blueprints and how to build a boat instructions tells me an expanded audience for sample pages is the best sales technique there is.

You are right on one part of your statement. Yes, the sample pages are a good marketing technique. That is because very few people will just buy something they haven't seen. Especially if it is more than $3.

I personally think you are limiting your potential.
And I must ask, how do you know what your customers have or don't have?
Have you asked them all?

Oh now one other question, will a buyer be able to access your book if there is no wifi handy?

[eschwartz]

Cinisajoy -- without WiFi, how do you download an EPUB???

In-browser servers can just use LocalStorage to read offline. In fact, the existing in-browser viewers all do just that.