Can't multi select books for custom libraries in Marvin 3

[Spfamy1]

I'm tired of being ignored on Facebook when I post problems there so let me be clear on this issue here in Mobile Reads.

In Marvin 3 it is impossible to multi select books via search and then put them into custom libraries you create. Here's the problem. If you go to the main library to search for books you want it's impossible to keep the books you multi selected to then import to your custom library. You're forced to manually input each book into that custom library. Why? Because the search function is separated from the option to take actions with the books you multi selected. In other words you can multi select the books OR perform actions on books. This needs a clear fix.

[Faterson]

Kris said that for now, he prefers – at this hectic early stage of Marvin 3 release – for us to submit bug reports by email to hello@appstafarian.com, if possible.

Later on, I hope we can again use Marvin's GitHub – that is the efficient and transparent way of tracking bug reports and feature requests and their resolutions. (Certainly not chaotic Facebook and not these MobileRead forums, either, which are only slightly less chaotic.)

[Spfamy1]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Kris said that for now, he prefers – at this hectic early stage of Marvin 3 release – for us to submit bug reports by email to hello@appstafarian.com, if possible.

Later on, I hope we can again use Marvin's GitHub – that is the efficient and transparent way of tracking bug reports and feature requests and their resolutions. (Certainly not chaotic Facebook and not these MobileRead forums, either, which are only slightly less chaotic.)

There's one problem with that option...there's no way other people who use Marvin 3 would even know about the bugs unless they're put on a forum. That's why a forum in my opinion is a better way of communicating issues with Marvin 3...so this way Kris wouldn't be deluged with duplicate emails about an issue that's better served by having a single thread per issue instead.

And on Github we had that ability. Kris could simply log into Github and see what the issues are at a glance. No need to wade through messy email communications to see the problems in Marvin 3.

And by posting my bug report in here...people who use Marvin 3 can see immediately what the problem is. This way they'll know what's wrong and can avoid the trials and errors in discovering what I already learned by testing Marvin 3 post release.

[Faterson]

Exactly, Spfamy1. I subscribe to every word you say, and I underline it 10 times.

GitHub was/is the ideal option to report bugs and track feature requests. I find it really regrettable that Kris asked us not to use GitHub for now. I hope we will soon be able to use Marvin's GitHub again, for all the reasons you mention. These MobileRead forums are no replacement for GitHub. This is chaos. Half the time here, you just need to deflect trolls and personal attacks. No real clarity is possible here.

On the other hand, I understand Kris must be totally overwhelmed by all the feedback he's been getting in recent weeks. When I asked a friend of mine why he ditched Marvin a year ago or so, he replied something like: "Well, it's a one-man project – I admire this Marvin creator, but I don't think he can really handle this in the long run." And I fear there is some truth in what he says. Really, it's absolutely amazing that Kris on his own has been able to create e-reader software that is clearly superior over iBooks, Kindle, and all the rest of the competition – software that is inferior despite, in some cases, being developed by multi-billion corporations with thousands of staff members. Corporations just aren't interested in creating top-quality software; they know that broad masses of users are perfectly fine with mediocre software, and masses are where the big money is. But there is reason to fear whether such a stupendous "one-man project" as Marvin really is sustainable for the long run. We must be careful not to overtax Kris with our demands. He overtaxed himself in the Marvin 2 and Marvin 1 days, and then came the burnout that lasted for a couple of years; let's not repeat that experience.

Bad news is also that everything you say in your post likewise applies to the Beta-testing of Marvin 3. I have mentioned several times how disappointed I am with Marvin 3 Beta-testing – it was pretty much "kept a secret", with no interaction among Beta-testers whatsoever. This brings all the disadvantages you mention in your post. And, I fear, this – especially – brought about many deficiencies currently present in Marvin 3 that could have been avoided if Marvin 3 Beta-testing had been conducted in the same interactive, collective way it used to be in Marvin 2 and Marvin 1 days. Marvin Beta-testing used to be about teamwork; but now it's just a series of individual conversations with the developer, kept secret from the rest of the Beta-testing team. The results in Marvin 3 speak for themselves; in its current state, I call Marvin 3, overall, a disappointment, although I do have hopes for the future.

[Spfamy1]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Exactly, Spfamy1. I subscribe to every word you say, and I underline it 10 times.

GitHub was/is the ideal option to report bugs and track feature requests. I find it really regrettable that Kris asked us not to use GitHub for now. I hope we will soon be able to use Marvin's GitHub again, for all the reasons you mention. These MobileRead forums are no replacement for GitHub. This is chaos. Half the time here, you just need to deflect trolls and personal attacks. No real clarity is possible here.

On the other hand, I understand Kris must be totally overwhelmed by all the feedback he's been getting in recent weeks. When I asked a friend of mine why he ditched Marvin a year ago or so, he replied something like: "Well, it's a one-man project – I admire this Marvin creator, but I don't think he can really handle this in the long run." And I fear there is some truth in what he says. Really, it's absolutely amazing that Kris on his own has been able to create e-reader software that is clearly superior over iBooks, Kindle, and all the rest of the competition – software that is inferior despite, in some cases, being developed by multi-billion corporations with thousands of staff members. Corporations just aren't interested in creating top-quality software; they know that broad masses of users are perfectly fine with mediocre software, and masses are where the big money is. But there is reason to fear whether such a stupendous "one-man project" as Marvin really is sustainable for the long run. We must be careful not to overtax Kris with our demands. He overtaxed himself in the Marvin 2 and Marvin 1 days, and then came the burnout that lasted for a couple of years; let's not repeat that experience.

Bad news is also that everything you say in your post likewise applies to the Beta-testing of Marvin 3. I have mentioned several times how disappointed I am with Marvin 3 Beta-testing – it was pretty much "kept a secret", with no interaction among Beta-testers whatsoever. This brings all the disadvantages you mention in your post. And, I fear, this – especially – brought about many deficiencies currently present in Marvin 3 that could have been avoided if Marvin 3 Beta-testing had been conducted in the same interactive, collective way it used to be in Marvin 2 and Marvin 1 days. Marvin Beta-testing used to be about teamwork; but now it's just a series of individual conversations with the developer, kept secret from the rest of the Beta-testing team. The results in Marvin 3 speak for themselves; in its current state, I call Marvin 3, overall, a disappointment, although I do have hopes for the future.

I am wondering what those other multi billion dollar companies out there think of Marvin. I'm looking at you Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft. Amazon especially since they have the biggest ebook ecosystem out there. Your comment about their attitude chills me to the bone because they seem to be satisfied offering only mediocre reading experiences with their ereader software. Heck I still have a BN Nook somewhere that's better than the Kindle because it allows me to side load content. Unfortunately BN is going to go Chapter 11 any day now and Amazon would be the only place to buy books or ebooks. As for Marvin 3 goes it is a miracle it even exists. It hasn't escaped my notice that Apple didn't list Marvin 3 as one of the best new apps in their app store recommendations. Heh.. I wonder why?

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by Spfamy1

I am wondering what those other multi billion dollar companies out there think of Marvin. I'm looking at you Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft.

They likely don't know it exists, and that's probably a very good thing. Remember what happened the last time when Amazon "noticed" Stanza? Yeah, they bought it in order to kill it. Oh yeah, I remember all that disingenuous propaganda talk about "incorporating the best of Stanza in our Kindle software". Yeah, right. Only a fool would believe that. The strategy is: kill the competition, and retain your focus on mediocrity, because that's where the big buck is. Software creation is just like any other area of creativity. Are the best-selling music artists, or the top-selling movie blockbusters, really the finest, top-quality works of music and cinematography? I don't think so. Striving for top quality is a very small niche in the global marketplace.

Originally Posted by Spfamy1

they seem to be satisfied offering only mediocre reading experiences with their ereader software.

You can bet your last dollar on that. If the corporations strove for top excellence of their e-reader software, only about 1% (or 0.01%) of their paying customers would notice any difference, so... they just won't strive for top excellence. If being mediocre is all that it takes, why strive for more?

Originally Posted by Spfamy1

As for Marvin 3 goes it is a miracle it even exists.

Just as you say. When Amazon killed Stanza, I thought we were doomed forever.

[democrite]

Originally Posted by Spfamy1

As for Marvin 3 goes it is a miracle it even exists. It hasn't escaped my notice that Apple didn't list Marvin 3 as one of the best new apps in their app store recommendations. Heh.. I wonder why?

While there are some very interesting ideas in M3, like M2, I believe it is quite unpolished, lacks refinement, some features show that more than others, and some perhaps should not even exist, or be significantly changed since I think they likely will be cumbersome or confusing for the average user. Software can be powerful, but like commercially available sophisticated apps for photo sound or film editing, it takes quite a bit of skill to create a nice UX.

I believe Kris learned programming so he could make Marvin. While the results are quite nice, it's quite evident that his skill in design is still lacking; the years between M2 and M3 show quite a difference, but also still show a need for improvement. There are countless little things in M3, for instance, the new feature to quickly change highlight color; it diverges from how iOS apps tend to implement the feature, and I do not believe it's different in a better way. I'd rate M3 not bad and decent, sometimes good, sometimes really bad, overall just ok and show's promise and shows promise that Kris might someday be good at design, and is capable unlike some, but I'd recommend some time just for the study of UX; grab a bunch of books and get reading.

There are many aspects of design that few will notice. For instance, years ago, the first time I saw a Ti PowerBook G4, I thought what's with the different tone colors and the seams (much like you can see seams on the panels of a car). Years later they're gone. I had thought the UI interface of OS X would become gray. It did. There was an IDEO designed monitor that had quite a nice design and when I first saw it, I thought yep the best I've seen so far. And Apple did take imspiration from it in their iMac and monitor designs. Etc. Not everyone has an eye for design.

[Breinstein]

Originally Posted by Spfamy1

I'm tired of being ignored on Facebook when I post problems there so let me be clear on this issue here in Mobile Reads.

In Marvin 3 it is impossible to multi select books via search and then put them into custom libraries you create. Here's the problem. If you go to the main library to search for books you want it's impossible to keep the books you multi selected to then import to your custom library. You're forced to manually input each book into that custom library. Why? Because the search function is separated from the option to take actions with the books you multi selected. In other words you can multi select the books OR perform actions on books. This needs a clear fix.

Maybe you mean something else but when you have multi select and select all als à shortcut in your sidebar then is no problem to select your books, when i select the box I see à checkmark at the top of the screen with the number of books I selected. When I press that checkmark I can put them in a custom library.

To be clear : I see al my books , swipe down on the top to get the searchbox, enter my searchterm, and then above mentionec actions can be done

[democrite]

Spfamy1 likely didn't know it's needed to click the checkmark at the top. Better would be in select mode, some toolbar appears, similar to PDF Expert, that shows actions. Besides being more clear, one less step.

[Spfamy1]

Originally Posted by democrite

Spfamy1 likely didn't know it's needed to click the checkmark at the top. Better would be in select mode, some toolbar appears, similar to PDF Expert, that shows actions. Besides being more clear, one less step.

Just got back from work to see this new information. Yes, it's a relief to "know" I had to tap the checkmark on the top to enable the action menu on multi selected books for further action. However...

There's still a problem! I defy any of you to filter a group of books by tag and then try multi selecting those books for further action. Just try it.

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by democrite

some features show that more than others, and some perhaps should not even exist

Resident MobileRead "design guru" is at it again. I hope Kris will ignore your "advice". Marvin needs more features – certainly not fewer. If you need fewer features, just turn to dumb Apple, Amazon, etc. e-reader software.

Originally Posted by democrite

I think they likely will be cumbersome or confusing for the average user.

The mythical "average user" can go back to dumb Apple, Amazon, etc. e-reader software if they're afraid of being "confused". In reality, I'm convinced no such user exists. The fear of "confusing average users" is mostly used as a false cop-out by software developers unwilling to expand the functionality of their software. I trust Kris will never use any such excuse, and will stay well away from this entire line of reasoning. Any and all features can be nicely incorporated into any type of software – incorporated so that they are not confusing. A dedicated button of the "Advanced Settings" type is usually the best way to ensure that no one really will ever be confused (or they will have themselves to blame for it).

Originally Posted by democrite

I believe Kris learned programming so he could make Marvin. While the results are quite nice, it's quite evident that his skill in design is still lacking

Generally speaking, I don't care about the looks of software; yes, nothing can possibly look worse than a typical greyish Apple app, but I'd be willing to tolerate the terrible looks if only at least Apple software was capable from the point of view of functionality. Functionality is, really, all that matters to me. But Apple software not just looks terrible, but it's typically functionally lacking as well: bare-bones and/or buggy, and with with zero customization options. Just compare iCloud and Dropbox, for example.

Even so, some of my friends who, unlike myself, do believe that the looks of software are important as well, almost universally praise Marvin not just for its functionality, but also for its design. All Marvin versions – 1 to 3. By the way – can any e-reader software ever look more awful than iBooks's default library screen?

Originally Posted by democrite

I'd rate M3 not bad and decent, sometimes good, sometimes really bad, overall just ok and show's promise and shows promise that Kris might someday be good at design

And I say that design doesn't really matter. Yeah, it's your hobby-horse, democrite, and you keep harping about Marvin design in these forums. But for myself, I can't really think of anything more irrelevant at this stage of Marvin's development. Marvin especially needs to improve its functionality. In terms of functionality, Marvin 3 has improved in certain respects compared to Marvin 2, but in some respects, it's currently less (!) capable than Marvin 2 (see lost gestures, for example).

Originally Posted by democrite

I'd recommend some time just for the study of UX; grab a bunch of books and get reading.

I for one would welcome if Kris spent his precious and limited time on improving Marvin's functionality before "grabbing books on UX design".

Originally Posted by democrite

There are many aspects of design that few will notice.

Indeed. Could it be because they aren't really relevant?

Originally Posted by democrite

Not everyone has an eye for design.

Unlike you. I sincerely congratulate you on having an eye for design, democrite. I'm not being sarcastic. But I also sincerely believe that if we set up a MobileRead poll asking Marvin users if Marvin should, as a priority, improve its functionality or design, functionality would win hands-down.

[Apocalypto]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Resident MobileRead "design guru" is at it again. I hope Kris will ignore your "advice". Marvin needs more features – certainly not fewer. If you need fewer features, just turn to dumb Apple, Amazon, etc. e-reader software.

The mythical "average user" can go back to dumb Apple, Amazon, etc. e-reader software if they're afraid of being "confused". In reality, I'm convinced no such user exists. The fear of "confusing average users" is mostly used as a false cop-out by software developers unwilling to expand the functionality of their software.

This thread is open because someone was confused about how something worked because of the design.

Even so, some of my friends who, unlike myself, do believe that the looks of software are important as well, almost universally praise Marvin not just for its functionality, but also for its design. All Marvin versions – 1 to 3. By the way – can any e-reader software ever look more awful than iBooks's default library screen?

And I say that design doesn't really matter.

Design isn't just about how something looks but how it functions, and making something simple is often more complex than vomiting out features and preferences. It's like with writing, nobody wants to read a wall of text so it's important to make your points clearly and concisely.

[kguil]

@Spfamy1 Unfortunately I cannot recognise you from Facebook. I'm looking at my notifications and don't see anyone I haven't already replied to. If I did miss you then I'm sorry. Your feature request has been noted.

[Spfamy1]

Originally Posted by kguil

@Spfamy1 Unfortunately I cannot recognise you from Facebook. I'm looking at my notifications and don't see anyone I haven't already replied to. If I did miss you then I'm sorry. Your feature request has been noted.

On Github I'm Marvinlover1. Yes, it's me. I had to change my username for this account because I don't want security issues affecting other accounts. I'm glad you're seeing the problem. Hopefully this gets addressed soon. As for the new Marvin 3.0.4 release today...I'm not seeing what's so special about the option to hide the info panel. Are you referring to the cover screen? So this way I can see the entire iPad screen with square book covers?! If so that's great. If not...I'm puzzled what this "hidden" option for the info panel is all about.

[kguil]

@Spfamy1 Now I recognise you. I haven't ignored you once on Facebook and in fact I have replied to you regarding this very request. You might need to check your notification settings. My reply was that I will consider your feature request.