Self-published books

gastan · 01-11-2016, 04:38 PM

Has anyone else come to loathe the very idea of self-published books? I began reading them for two reasons. #1: price. They are a great bargain, money-wise. #2: great reviews.

I quickly became disgruntled with poor (or no) editing, misspelled words, bad grammar and general run-of-the-mill, horrendous writing. Who gives these pieces of junk 4 and 5 stars? (Seriously, who would use the word 'waste' when they mean 'waist' and how could ANY reviewer ignore such mistakes?)

Even after dumping (without finishing) several books that read like they had been written by a third grade English grammar drop-out, I preserved, thinking that I was just too critical. But it has come to a point where one of the first things I check is whether the work is self-published or not. If it is ..... I pass. I'm done with wasting my time.

Sorry. Rant over. But seriously, am I the only one?

HomeInMyShoes · 01-11-2016, 04:44 PM

No, you are not the only one. There are good ones out there, but with the market and websites being flooded with everyone including their cat publishing whatever sticks to paper it is really hard to find anything worthwhile. It's why I'm glad I am many years behind current in most of what I want to read because it lets time sort out the reasonable from the dregs.

As for who gives them 4 and 5 stars? Sock puppets.

pidgeon92 · 01-11-2016, 05:18 PM

There were a few that I read and enjoyed back in the first couple of years I had a Kindle, before getting ebooks from the library became so easy. I don't actively seek them out, and unless I get a recommendation for one from a reliable source I doubt I'll ever pick up another one.

pwalker8 · 01-11-2016, 05:19 PM

There are some good ones out there, but a whole lot of dreck and a lot of people putting out dreck who have learned how the game the Amazon system. It wouldn't be so bad if Amazon either policed their catalog or provided better filtering tools.

Most the ones that I've liked are ones that were recommended on this site.

booklover6 · 01-11-2016, 05:38 PM

Yes, there is a lot of trash out there. I've recently gotten into the habit of actually reading the "look inside" preview, instead of just the blurb and some reviews. This has saved me from one-clicking a good number of freebies. And I am no longer allowing myself to be fooled by nice covers. That "look inside" can be a real eye-opener.

Of course that doesn't reveal all...I am reading a self-pubbed book now whose author has never heard of chapter breaks. Years can pass and it's still in part 1, or part 2, or part 3. I am likely not going to finish it.

susan_cassidy · 01-11-2016, 06:55 PM

You "preserved" ? I think you mean persevered. Now, who is making typos? Some self-pubbed books are excellent. You can't paint all self-pubbed books as garbage. You can also look for more than just a few reviews. I often like to see more than 100 good ones.

Jack Torrance · 01-11-2016, 07:47 PM

I can get past a lot of typos and misspellings if the story flows but that's a trait that's not learned in a first attempt.

Giving credit to the self published they are probably self editing and that's were so many errors come in. It's almost impossible to self edit as you will read right past the errors and the word programs miss words that are spelled correctly but the wrong word waist/waste example.

Just my .02

Cinisajoy · 01-11-2016, 07:47 PM

Here is the one way to avoid bad self-published books. Read the actual description and take the time to scroll down and see where they are ranked. Also take the time to sample the books. Use the look inside feature. If the first words are congratulations on downloading this book. RUN. It only gets worse from there.
Yes, there are some bad self-published books but not all of them are.
I can think of at least 5 self-published millionaires off the top of my head. I also know of several formerly traditional authors that now self-publish because they get most of the earnings.
Of course I know others that are both trad and self.

Cinisajoy · 01-11-2016, 07:50 PM

The biggest problem I have found is the non English speakers putting out books in English.
I still remember a self help book that had something about house worms with depression.

fjtorres · 01-11-2016, 07:58 PM

Indie ebooks make up 27% of the titles listed at the Kindle Store but they make up 38% of the unit sales. And those numbers are growing steadily, year by year. That is hardly the result of gaming or cheating.

Don't like what you see, don't buy.
Everybody is entitled to like or dislike whatever they choose to like or dislike.

But don't discount the millions of people happily buying and reading indie ebooks and *liking* what they read or the millions subscribing to Kindle Unlimited "despite" the fact that ~99% of the titles listed there are indie.

Just because something doesn't work for you doesn't automatically make it defective.

meeera · 01-11-2016, 08:01 PM

I read them when recommended by people I trust. I just don't have the time or energy to sift through the unedited dreck to find the gems for myself.

eschwartz · 01-11-2016, 08:23 PM

In the words of DiapDealer (this just sums it all up, it's my new quotable quote),

"I don't value a well-written book that I didn't like any more than a badly-written book that I didn't like."

Sturgeon's Law:

Quote:

Ninety percent of everything is crap.

...

Yes, most self-published books are garbage.
That did not come as a surprise to me. I am happy just thinking about the good ones.

How do I find good self-published books? The same way I find good trad-pubbed books.
Someone whose taste in books I trust, suggested it.
Or, I've read books by that author before.
Or, it sounded interesting, I took a look at the first few chapters, and it grabbed my attention -- so I gambled on it.

Nothing has changed going from tradpub to self-pub. Except there are more self-pubbed books, and therefore proportionately, more self-pubbed crap.
I never *did* just read anything that had a well-known publisher written on it.
I had to sift through the edited dreck to find the gems for myself.

cromag · 01-11-2016, 08:41 PM

More than half of the books I read are self published. I do tend to be selective, and I manage to avoid the worst of them by reading blurbs and samples. (Honestly, just reading the blurb is usually enough to avoid the really bad ones. Someone who can't write, can't write.)

I can, and do, tolerate a few typos in any given work. I was reading paperback science fiction in the 60s and publishers like Ace, Lancer, etc., would always have a few typos for the reader to discover. But "a few" is a small number. If mistakes are routine (or if the mistakes are due to carelessness, ignorance, etc.) I abandon it.

I make an effort to write reviews, especially for Indies for whom it makes the biggest difference, but I usually don't post a very low review unless I really feel it's warranted -- it's the whole "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" approach. Unless I feel that I really need to warn others.

Catlady · 01-11-2016, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

You "preserved" ? I think you mean persevered. Now, who is making typos? Some self-pubbed books are excellent. You can't paint all self-pubbed books as garbage. You can also look for more than just a few reviews. I often like to see more than 100 good ones.

It's patently unfair to pounce on a typo in a forum post, trying to equate it with typos in a published book. If a person is purporting to be an author and charging money for a product, that product needs to be honed and polished and professional.

The worst thing about self-published books is that they make it harder to find good books--it becomes too tedious to try to wade through page after page of search results looking for the professionally published books.

darryl · 01-11-2016, 09:31 PM

Two shoppers went into one of their local stores to pick-up some last minute avocados to have with the family dinner. The store had a large pallet full of avocados. Some were smaller, some larger. Some were hard as a rock and days off being ready to eat. Others had seen better days. A few were even starting to rot. And of course, some were ready to eat and just right. The first shopper spent a couple of minutes at the pallet, inspecting avocados carefully and feeling them for ripeness, selecting 4. The other shopper grabbed 4 avocados at random from the pallet.

Which shopper's family do you think enjoyed beautiful avocados with dinner? And which shopper do you think was to be seen the next day, loudly proclaiming to anyone who would listen that it was impossible to get good avocados and they would never buy another one?

Thank you to Cinisajoy, fjtorres and eschwartz for your posts. These Zombie Meme's are indeed well named.

01-11-2016, 05:38 PM	#5
booklover6 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,545 Karma: 14008730 Join Date: May 2008 Location: PA (USA) Device: Kobo Clara, 2E, Libre 1, PW4, PW5, 2022 Kindle, Kobo Libre Colour	Yes, there is a lot of trash out there. I've recently gotten into the habit of actually reading the "look inside" preview, instead of just the blurb and some reviews. This has saved me from one-clicking a good number of freebies. And I am no longer allowing myself to be fooled by nice covers. That "look inside" can be a real eye-opener. Of course that doesn't reveal all...I am reading a self-pubbed book now whose author has never heard of chapter breaks. Years can pass and it's still in part 1, or part 2, or part 3. I am likely not going to finish it. Last edited by booklover6; 01-11-2016 at 05:41 PM.

01-11-2016, 08:41 PM	#13
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,283 Karma: 459765791 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	More than half of the books I read are self published. I do tend to be selective, and I manage to avoid the worst of them by reading blurbs and samples. (Honestly, just reading the blurb is usually enough to avoid the really bad ones. Someone who can't write, can't write.) I can, and do, tolerate a few typos in any given work. I was reading paperback science fiction in the 60s and publishers like Ace, Lancer, etc., would always have a few typos for the reader to discover. But "a few" is a small number. If mistakes are routine (or if the mistakes are due to carelessness, ignorance, etc.) I abandon it. I make an effort to write reviews, especially for Indies for whom it makes the biggest difference, but I usually don't post a very low review unless I really feel it's warranted -- it's the whole "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" approach. Unless I feel that I really need to warn others. Last edited by cromag; 01-11-2016 at 08:56 PM.

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01-11-2016, 04:38 PM	#1
gastan Addict Posts: 221 Karma: 801624 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: US Pacific Northwest Device: LePan II, Kobo Aura	Self-published books Has anyone else come to loathe the very idea of self-published books? I began reading them for two reasons. #1: price. They are a great bargain, money-wise. #2: great reviews. I quickly became disgruntled with poor (or no) editing, misspelled words, bad grammar and general run-of-the-mill, horrendous writing. Who gives these pieces of junk 4 and 5 stars? (Seriously, who would use the word 'waste' when they mean 'waist' and how could ANY reviewer ignore such mistakes?) Even after dumping (without finishing) several books that read like they had been written by a third grade English grammar drop-out, I preserved, thinking that I was just too critical. But it has come to a point where one of the first things I check is whether the work is self-published or not. If it is ..... I pass. I'm done with wasting my time. Sorry. Rant over. But seriously, am I the only one?

01-11-2016, 04:44 PM	#2
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	No, you are not the only one. There are good ones out there, but with the market and websites being flooded with everyone including their cat publishing whatever sticks to paper it is really hard to find anything worthwhile. It's why I'm glad I am many years behind current in most of what I want to read because it lets time sort out the reasonable from the dregs. As for who gives them 4 and 5 stars? Sock puppets.

01-11-2016, 05:18 PM	#3
pidgeon92 Wizard Posts: 3,144 Karma: 8426142 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Device: Kindle PW2, Kindle Voyage, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD	There were a few that I read and enjoyed back in the first couple of years I had a Kindle, before getting ebooks from the library became so easy. I don't actively seek them out, and unless I get a recommendation for one from a reliable source I doubt I'll ever pick up another one.

01-11-2016, 05:19 PM	#4
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,196 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	There are some good ones out there, but a whole lot of dreck and a lot of people putting out dreck who have learned how the game the Amazon system. It wouldn't be so bad if Amazon either policed their catalog or provided better filtering tools. Most the ones that I've liked are ones that were recommended on this site.

01-11-2016, 06:55 PM	#6
susan_cassidy Wizard Posts: 2,251 Karma: 3720310 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Device: Kindle, iPad (not used much for reading)	You "preserved" ? I think you mean persevered. Now, who is making typos? Some self-pubbed books are excellent. You can't paint all self-pubbed books as garbage. You can also look for more than just a few reviews. I often like to see more than 100 good ones.

01-11-2016, 07:47 PM	#7
Jack Torrance “Here’s Johnny Posts: 186 Karma: 3863056 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Overlook Hotel Colorado Device: Kindle DXG - 9.7 iPad - iPhone 12PM - Macbook Pro	I can get past a lot of typos and misspellings if the story flows but that's a trait that's not learned in a first attempt. Giving credit to the self published they are probably self editing and that's were so many errors come in. It's almost impossible to self edit as you will read right past the errors and the word programs miss words that are spelled correctly but the wrong word waist/waste example. Just my .02

01-11-2016, 07:47 PM	#8
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	Here is the one way to avoid bad self-published books. Read the actual description and take the time to scroll down and see where they are ranked. Also take the time to sample the books. Use the look inside feature. If the first words are congratulations on downloading this book. RUN. It only gets worse from there. Yes, there are some bad self-published books but not all of them are. I can think of at least 5 self-published millionaires off the top of my head. I also know of several formerly traditional authors that now self-publish because they get most of the earnings. Of course I know others that are both trad and self.

01-11-2016, 07:50 PM	#9
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	The biggest problem I have found is the non English speakers putting out books in English. I still remember a self help book that had something about house worms with depression.

01-11-2016, 07:58 PM	#10
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	Indie ebooks make up 27% of the titles listed at the Kindle Store but they make up 38% of the unit sales. And those numbers are growing steadily, year by year. That is hardly the result of gaming or cheating. Don't like what you see, don't buy. Everybody is entitled to like or dislike whatever they choose to like or dislike. But don't discount the millions of people happily buying and reading indie ebooks and liking what they read or the millions subscribing to Kindle Unlimited "despite" the fact that ~99% of the titles listed there are indie. Just because something doesn't work for you doesn't automatically make it defective.

01-11-2016, 08:01 PM	#11
meeera Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,814 Karma: 68407974 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2, iPadMini4, iPad4, MBP; support other Kobo/Kindles	I read them when recommended by people I trust. I just don't have the time or energy to sift through the unedited dreck to find the gems for myself.

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01-11-2016, 09:31 PM	#15
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	Two shoppers went into one of their local stores to pick-up some last minute avocados to have with the family dinner. The store had a large pallet full of avocados. Some were smaller, some larger. Some were hard as a rock and days off being ready to eat. Others had seen better days. A few were even starting to rot. And of course, some were ready to eat and just right. The first shopper spent a couple of minutes at the pallet, inspecting avocados carefully and feeling them for ripeness, selecting 4. The other shopper grabbed 4 avocados at random from the pallet. Which shopper's family do you think enjoyed beautiful avocados with dinner? And which shopper do you think was to be seen the next day, loudly proclaiming to anyone who would listen that it was impossible to get good avocados and they would never buy another one? Thank you to Cinisajoy, fjtorres and eschwartz for your posts. These Zombie Meme's are indeed well named.