Example of e-book with well-formatted math?

SBT · 06-03-2015, 09:35 AM

Has anybody come across an ebook containing math done well, as in expressions that scale with text and are rendered consistently both inline and standalone?
I've flipped through samples from the big publishers on the Kindle store. Not impressive. Some of them actually use scans from a paper copy to show math

Doitsu · 06-03-2015, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBT

Has anybody come across an ebook containing math done well, as in expressions that scale with text and are rendered consistently both inline and standalone?

Math is best supported by epub3 readers. The makers of Azardi (Windows, Linux, OSX) offer Max Planck's The Theory of Heat Radiation as a free epub3 ebook. It obviously contains lots of formulas.

If you have an Android tablet, also check out Gitden Reader.

SBT · 06-03-2015, 06:20 PM

Thanks Doitsu, it's a useful reference. However, I should have specified that I'm looking for EPUB2 and KF8 examples.

Why oh why is it so hard to make a MathML renderer that works? It took forever to get browsers to support it, ADE4 just added it, and apparently the iBooks implementation is so dodgy it's better to use MathJax instead...

Toxaris · 06-04-2015, 03:13 AM

For ePUB2 the only alternative to an image is a SVG I think. You can use the codecogs site to create SVG formulas.

Jellby · 06-04-2015, 03:19 AM

Any idea how to get MathJax spit out the SVG files, rather than use them on-the-fly (for non-JS rendering)?

roger64 · 06-04-2015, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBT

Why oh why is it so hard to make a MathML renderer that works?.

If you need to produce an EPUB2 by converting a document with MathML, writer2xhtml is available and works pretty well.

http://writer2latex.sourceforge.net/

SBT · 06-04-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

Any idea how to get MathJax spit out the SVG files, rather than use them on-the-fly (for non-JS rendering)?

Hi Jellby,
I've seen the same question on MathJax mailing lists, and the answer was that it's not really possible. I'm not sure if that's 100% correct. I used phantom.js and was able to retrieve the HTML variant output, but I never succeeded in catching the SVG output.
I did look at the HTML output to see if it could be used in an EPUB2 or KF8 file, but the conclusion was it required so much modification that there wasn't any point.

Jellby · 06-04-2015, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBT

I've seen the same question on MathJax mailing lists, and the answer was that it's not really possible. I'm not sure if that's 100% correct. I used phantom.js and was able to retrieve the HTML variant output, but I never succeeded in catching the SVG output.

Some time ago I experimented with mathoid, which uses phantom.js, so maybe that's what you used too. I didn't have the success I expected though, but maybe I need to be more persistent.

DaleDe · 06-04-2015, 04:06 PM

Try http://sourceforge.net/projects/svgmath/ to convert Mathml to Svg.

Dale

michal.h21 · 06-19-2015, 04:14 PM

tex4ht supports saving math as images in LaTeX to HTML conversion. by default, it uses png, but it can be configured to use svg instead. if you use tex4ebook, which is based on tex4ht and can export directly to epub and epub3, you can try this build file.

personally, I would go with epub3 and use mathml, because image math is horrible no matters if it is bitmap or svg. downside is poor reader support, but nothing pushes their creators to change that if there are no epub3 math books.

SBT · 06-20-2015, 10:21 AM

Thanks for all suggestions re. mathml and latex tools. Do these tools ensure correct vertical alignment of math as inline images? Do they handle equation numbering in a sensible manner?

thewitt · 06-20-2015, 10:26 AM

ePUB 2 is not going to ever give you what you want. The text flows, by design, and this means I can increase or decrease the size, change the font, etc. ePUB 3 is going to be your only real option - other than using images and putting the formulas between blocks of text.

michal.h21 · 06-21-2015, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBT

Thanks for all suggestions re. mathml and latex tools. Do these tools ensure correct vertical alignment of math as inline images? Do they handle equation numbering in a sensible manner?

vertical alignment is tricky part. some experimental solution exists, but the correct way is still epub3 and mathml.

SBT · 06-21-2015, 11:50 AM

Though most grateful for all the suggestions, I would like to return to the original question: Has anybody actually seen an epub2/KF8 book with half-decent math in it?
Given the many tools listed, it seems logical to assume many attempts have been made, but has a technically sucessfull math ebook ever made it to the shelves?

rkomar · 06-21-2015, 04:35 PM

I remember this one rendering surprisingly well in a RMSDK-based application a few years ago. http://downloads.hindawi.com/journal...08/421650.epub. I vaguely recall looking at the HTML inside the epub, and getting the impression that I would never be able to produce something like that myself.

06-03-2015, 09:35 AM	#1
SBT Fanatic Posts: 580 Karma: 810184 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Norway Device: prs-t1, tablet, Nook Simple, assorted kindles, iPad	Example of e-book with well-formatted math? Has anybody come across an ebook containing math done well, as in expressions that scale with text and are rendered consistently both inline and standalone? I've flipped through samples from the big publishers on the Kindle store. Not impressive. Some of them actually use scans from a paper copy to show math

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06-03-2015, 06:20 PM	#3
SBT Fanatic Posts: 580 Karma: 810184 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Norway Device: prs-t1, tablet, Nook Simple, assorted kindles, iPad	Thanks Doitsu, it's a useful reference. However, I should have specified that I'm looking for EPUB2 and KF8 examples. Why oh why is it so hard to make a MathML renderer that works? It took forever to get browsers to support it, ADE4 just added it, and apparently the iBooks implementation is so dodgy it's better to use MathJax instead...

06-04-2015, 03:13 AM	#4
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	For ePUB2 the only alternative to an image is a SVG I think. You can use the codecogs site to create SVG formulas.

06-04-2015, 03:19 AM	#5
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,546 Karma: 19001583 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	Any idea how to get MathJax spit out the SVG files, rather than use them on-the-fly (for non-JS rendering)?

06-04-2015, 04:06 PM	#9
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	Try http://sourceforge.net/projects/svgmath/ to convert Mathml to Svg. Dale

06-19-2015, 04:14 PM	#10
michal.h21 Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 100000 Join Date: Feb 2013 Device: Sony PRS-T1	tex4ht supports saving math as images in LaTeX to HTML conversion. by default, it uses png, but it can be configured to use svg instead. if you use tex4ebook, which is based on tex4ht and can export directly to epub and epub3, you can try this build file. personally, I would go with epub3 and use mathml, because image math is horrible no matters if it is bitmap or svg. downside is poor reader support, but nothing pushes their creators to change that if there are no epub3 math books.

06-20-2015, 10:21 AM	#11
SBT Fanatic Posts: 580 Karma: 810184 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Norway Device: prs-t1, tablet, Nook Simple, assorted kindles, iPad	Thanks for all suggestions re. mathml and latex tools. Do these tools ensure correct vertical alignment of math as inline images? Do they handle equation numbering in a sensible manner?

06-20-2015, 10:26 AM	#12
thewitt Zealot Posts: 129 Karma: 1135446 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Miami, Florida Device: iBooks	ePUB 2 is not going to ever give you what you want. The text flows, by design, and this means I can increase or decrease the size, change the font, etc. ePUB 3 is going to be your only real option - other than using images and putting the formulas between blocks of text.

06-21-2015, 11:50 AM	#14
SBT Fanatic Posts: 580 Karma: 810184 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Norway Device: prs-t1, tablet, Nook Simple, assorted kindles, iPad	Though most grateful for all the suggestions, I would like to return to the original question: Has anybody actually seen an epub2/KF8 book with half-decent math in it? Given the many tools listed, it seems logical to assume many attempts have been made, but has a technically sucessfull math ebook ever made it to the shelves?

06-21-2015, 04:35 PM	#15
rkomar Wizard Posts: 3,050 Karma: 18821071 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Sudbury, ON, Canada Device: PRS-505, PB 902, PRS-T1, PB 623, PB 840, PB 633	I remember this one rendering surprisingly well in a RMSDK-based application a few years ago. http://downloads.hindawi.com/journal...08/421650.epub. I vaguely recall looking at the HTML inside the epub, and getting the impression that I would never be able to produce something like that myself.

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