ADE v3 and v4 and xpgt files, oh woe is me

[GrannyGrump]

This may have been reported already. I recently downloaded ADE version 3 and version 4. They seem to no longer support the xpgt template files.

The only reason I was using the xpgt file was to assign alternate font-formatting for the ADE readers. (such as my Gilded Age project https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=235603 [shameless plug!], with lots of unicode fonts and RTL languages.)


So, by extrapolation, I would imagine that in several years, ADE-based readers using newer versions of ADE will no longer be able to use the xpgt templates. I guess it would have been too much to expect that when they killed support for the xpgt, they would simultaneously begin supporting the formatting ebook makers were using them for.

I'm depressed now...

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

This may have been reported already. I recently downloaded ADE version 3 and version 4. They seem to no longer support the xpgt template files.

The only reason I was using the xpgt file was to assign alternate font-formatting for the ADE readers. (such as my Gilded Age project https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=235603 [shameless plug!], with lots of unicode fonts and RTL languages.)


So, by extrapolation, I would imagine that in several years, ADE-based readers using newer versions of ADE will no longer be able to use the xpgt templates. I guess it would have been too much to expect that when they killed support for the xpgt, they would simultaneously begin supporting the formatting ebook makers were using them for.

I'm depressed now...

By the way, with ADE 4.0, finally Adobe started to support epub3; it seems that "more or less" complicated layout can be read on ADE now.

From the ADE's site:

A richer reading experience with EPUB 3 support

The support for EPUB 3 standard allows you a richer reading experience, including: more consistent rendering of audio and video content; support for right to left reading; dynamic image resizing without loss in clarity, support for multi-column layouts, interactive quizzes, better rendering of math formulas, and huge improvements in support for read-aloud and assistive technologies.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

This may have been reported already. I recently downloaded ADE version 3 and version 4. They seem to no longer support the xpgt template files.

I did a quick test with the second volume of the "hi-tec version" of The Gilded Age and ADE 3.0.1, and the XPGT template seems to work because it displays images instead of Arabic text in chapter 41.

However, ADE 4.0.2 is a different matter. XPGT templates are not supported; the Arabic RTL text in chapter 41 is being displayed as pre-shaped LTR text using the embedded font. I.e. the text would be OK, if the glyphs were displayed RTL. (See Arabic_EPUB2_ADE4_medium.png.)

After converting the original ePub2 ebook to an ePub3 ebook with KevinH's epub3 output plugin for Sigil 0.8.2, the Arabic text is being rendered correctly, but the embedded font is not used. (See Arabic_EPUB3_ADE4_large.png.)

There are also rendering differences that affect Latin text. For an example, have a look at the distance between the dropcap letter and the following text. In the epub2 version, everything looks as designed, however, in the epub3 version, there's no space between the dropcap and the following letter.

This means that rich layout ePub2 books might require some fine-tuning for optimal display in ADE4 and the corresponding RMSDK app for eInk readers and tablets. Also note that the ePub2 screen capture was taken with the font size set to "medium" and the ePub3 screen capture with the font size set to "large."

@GrannyGrump: AFAIK, ePub3 ebooks are supposed to be backwards compatible with ePub2 readers. When I converted the second volume of the "hi-tec version" of The Gilded Age with the Sigil ePub3 output plugin, the resulting ePub3 was displayed correctly with ADE 1.7, which is the lowest common denominator.

Does the automatically converted epub3 also display correctly with your ePub2 eInk reader? If so, you might be able to (slightly) "future-proof" the 2 high-tec Gilded Age volumes by converting them to ePub3 with Sigil 0.8.2.
(Note that Sigil is not yet ePub3 compatible; it can export ePub3 books with the optional ePub3 output plugin, but you cannot edit ePub3 ebooks with it, because Sigil will back-convert them to ePub2 when you save the ebook.)

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

There are also rendering differences that affect Latin text. For an example, have a look at the distance between the dropcap letter and the following text. In the epub2 version, everything looks as designed, however, in the epub3 version, there's no space between the dropcap and the following letter.

I don't know but under epub2, in MY Sigil, the distance between the dropcap letter and the following text is the same as in epub3. I think this is an effect wanted by Granny, Doitsu (watch in main .css the style "firstwordsTT"). By the way, I like that effect; I saw it in many books. But one thing is almost sure, epub3 is among us (finally ).

[JSWolf]

if you use the XGPT file for something important, you do then make it so your eBook is only viewable with ADE.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

I don't know but under epub2, in MY Sigil, the distance between the dropcap letter and the following text is the same as in epub3.

Please have another look at the attached screen captures. In Arabic_EPUB2_ADE4_medium.png there are a couple of white pixels between the upper right corner of H dropcap and the following letter (which matches the ADE 1.7.3 rendering), however, in Arabic_EPUB3_ADE4_large.png (which shows the converted ePub3 version) the upper right corner of the H dropcap bleeds into the following letter. (You might have to change the font size to see this behavior.)

Originally Posted by JSWolf

if you use the XGPT file for something important, you do then make it so your eBook is only viewable with ADE.

Unfortunately, using an XPGT file is sometimes the only solution to overcome ADE shortcomings. Had you actually looked at the code that GrannyGrump used, you'd would have noticed that she used a neat trick to ensure that even ADE users could read her beautifully designed book without problems.
You may want to try to refrain from posting every now and then, if you don't fully understand all aspects of an issue, because the majority of your posts don't add any useful information.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Please have another look at the attached screen captures. In Arabic_EPUB2_ADE4_medium.png there are a couple of white pixels between the upper right corner of H dropcap and the following letter (which matches the ADE 1.7.3 rendering), however, in Arabic_EPUB3_ADE4_large.png (which shows the converted ePub3 version) the upper right corner of the H dropcap bleeds into the following letter. (You might have to change the font size to see this behavior.)

It's true; by incrementing the font size I could see what you had said above. Good eye Doitsu!

Originally Posted by Doitsu

...she used a neat trick to ensure that even ADE users could read her beautifully designed book without problems.

Indeed! A very beautiful layout; congratulations for your work Granny!

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Please have another look at the attached screen captures. In Arabic_EPUB2_ADE4_medium.png there are a couple of white pixels between the upper right corner of H dropcap and the following letter (which matches the ADE 1.7.3 rendering), however, in Arabic_EPUB3_ADE4_large.png (which shows the converted ePub3 version) the upper right corner of the H dropcap bleeds into the following letter. (You might have to change the font size to see this behavior.)

It seems the font with EPUB3 is thicker than with EPUB2. I'd say this is ADE artificially emboldening the font, which has the effect of reducing the spacing, because the font metrics are not modified.

[GrannyGrump]

And speaking of ADE font rendering, the only reason I even tried the newer versions is that a couple of months ago, my v2 installation began rendering ALL fonts very poorly, even its own default fonts. Very spotty and ragged, like a very poor scan of a faded old book. Un- and re-installing did not help. The new versions do the same. I would assume it was a computer video-chip problem, except all other software displays fonts as normal.

I shall have to visit the support forums for my laptop, I guess.

@Doitsu, thank you for the epub3 tips. I haven't dipped my toes in that cold water yet, maybe it is time to start learning to swim.

[Jellby]

Actually, I recently noticed that my Kobo Aura does not seem to recognize xpgt files (at least not my conditional formatting). It probably uses some recent RMSDK which doesn't support them...

[JSWolf]

The RMDSK in Kobo firmware version 3.12.0 is some version equivalent to some version ADE 3.x.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The RMDSK in Kobo firmware version 3.12.0 is some version equivalent to some version ADE 3.x.

Since the 3.0.1 ADE Windows desktop version displays the conditional formatting in Jellby's test file, it has to be a higher version than ADE 3.x., unless Kobo removed XPGT support from the RMSDK equivalent of 3.x.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Since the 3.0.1 ADE Windows desktop version displays the conditional formatting in Jellby's test file, it has to be a higher version than ADE 3.x., unless Kobo removed XPGT support from the RMSDK equivalent of 3.x.

Removing support for XGPT files is quite possible as in most cases, it is used just for margins and it could interfere with the margin slider.