Sigil to Kindlegen: Maintain Blank Pages?

[BMCarbaugh]

Hi all. I've formatted ebooks before, and my workflow looks something like this: Open office (.odt) -> Sigil (.epub) -> Kindle Previewer (.mobi). I'm very finnicky about my formatting, so I like a lot of fine-grained control.

That said, I do have one problem which has vexed me for as long as I can remember, and I'm sick of just ignoring it:

How the hell do I get Sigil and/or Kindlegen to stop obliterating my blank pages?

I like to use blank pages between sections of the book, or after particularly impactful chapters, because it gives a nice little bit of breathing room. But somewhere in the .epub -> .mobi conversion, blank pages are always stripped out.

Is there any way to force these programs to keep my blank pages? (I've already tried inserting non-breaking spaces, etc).

[JSWolf]

One way to do it is do not use page breaks. Use an actual XML with no displayable content. That should work.

How are you doing your blank pages now?

[BMCarbaugh]

I've tried every method under the sun to insert page-breaks. Page-breaks carried over from Open Office, sigil section-splits, non-breaking spaces, invisible characters, all of the above formatted to the "insert page break before" heading style that all my other headings use, etc.

The only reliable method I've found is to create, within sigil, a dedicated section (ie a separate html file created with the "split at marker" tool) containing an image (a single white pixel). But this is sort of a workaround, and less than ideal.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by BMCarbaugh

I've tried every method under the sun to insert page-breaks. Page-breaks carried over from Open Office, sigil section-splits, non-breaking spaces, invisible characters, all of the above formatted to the "insert page break before" heading style that all my other headings use, etc.

The only reliable method I've found is to create, within sigil, a dedicated section (ie a separate html file created with the "split at marker" tool) containing an image (a single white pixel). But this is sort of a workaround, and less than ideal.

Don't use the single white pixel because if someone was to read it on a tablet, that pixel could very well show up.

Create the XML file with just a single space or a single non-breaking space. That should do it.

[BMCarbaugh]

I'm not sure what you mean. What xml file? My workflow goes from .odt to .epub (which contains a bunch of .xhtml files) then to .mobi.

[exaltedwombat]

Originally Posted by BMCarbaugh

I've tried every method under the sun to insert page-breaks. Page-breaks carried over from Open Office, sigil section-splits, non-breaking spaces, invisible characters, all of the above formatted to the "insert page break before" heading style that all my other headings use, etc.

The only reliable method I've found is to create, within sigil, a dedicated section (ie a separate html file created with the "split at marker" tool) containing an image (a single white pixel). But this is sort of a workaround, and less than ideal.

A new XHTML file is the way to force a page break. Will a non-breaking space do as content?

But be careful. Ebooks are not fascimilies of printed books, and shouldn't attempt to be. On an ereader, flipping to a blank page will be perceived as a glitch. Anything but restful!

[BMCarbaugh]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

A new XHTML file is the way to force a page break. Will a non-breaking space do as content?

But be careful. Ebooks are not fascimilies of printed books, and shouldn't attempt to be. On an ereader, flipping to a blank page will be perceived as a glitch. Anything but restful!

Yeah, I know that's what SHOULD work, it just doesn't. A new xhtml file with a space, nb space, invisible character, etc fails to register as content -- so either Sigil or Kindlegen just strips it right out. It's only visible characters that seem to make it through and maintain a page-break.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by BMCarbaugh

Yeah, I know that's what SHOULD work, it just doesn't. A new xhtml file with a space, nb space, invisible character, etc fails to register as content -- so either Sigil or Kindlegen just strips it right out. It's only visible characters that seem to make it through and maintain a page-break.

Long shot from a bunker - how about a tiny completely transparent gif/png.

BR

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by BMCarbaugh

so either Sigil or Kindlegen just strips it right out. It's only visible characters that seem to make it through and maintain a page-break.

Gotta be kindlegen stripping them out. I assure you it's not Sigil. Sigil will happily allow you to create files (pages) with either visible or invisible characters in them.

Are you verifying the epubs you create with Sigil have the page-breaks you expect using ADE or some other epub reading software/device before feeding it to Kindlegen? Seems like a logical first step to me. If your extra blank pages appear in ADE, then you can move on to getting advice for kindlegen/mobi creation. If they don't appear in ADE, then you need to figure out what's going wrong in your conversion/export from odt to epub.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Gotta be kindlegen stripping them out. I assure you it's not Sigil. Sigil will happily allow you to create files (pages) with either visible or invisible characters in them.

Are you verifying the epubs you create with Sigil have the page-breaks you expect using ADE or some other epub reading software/device before feeding it to Kindlegen? Seems like a logical first step to me. If your extra blank pages appear in ADE, then you can move on to getting advice for kindlegen/mobi creation. If they don't appear in ADE, then you need to figure out what's going wrong in your conversion/export from odt to epub.

AFAIK,

It's certainly not Sigil, assuming arguendo that the "page breaks" or, rather, "blank pages" are made correctly. We should clarify that we are all discussing the same thing.

The OP says:

How the hell do I get Sigil and/or Kindlegen to stop obliterating my blank pages?

I like to use blank pages between sections of the book, or after particularly impactful chapters, because it gives a nice little bit of breathing room.

So, he's not simply discussing page-breaks, which are easy; he's trying to deliberately create and deliver blank pages, which, as someone already pointed out, will be considered "glitches" or errors at Amazon by readers (and most likely reported as same).

Kindlegen absolutely strips out blank content of any kind--empty paragraphs, and empty pages. Not that I've tried to deliberately create blanks, other than in FF books.

The only way I see to do this is to put something on the page. The single-pixel approach is as good as any other, I'd say. Of course it's a "workaround," because ebooks aren't supposed to have blank pages, really.

Hitch

[DiapDealer]

@Hitch: that's pretty-much what I assumed the OP was talking about.
I didn't know for sure that kindlegen would strip blank content, but I suspected as much. I just knew it wasn't Sigil. I found it a little odd that the OP didn't examine each phase of the process (ODT looks good; epub looks okay; oops! mobi's F'd up) instead of blasting straight through to mobi and wondering where things went pear-shaped.

So in short: you can add all the extra "blank" pages to your epub that you want using Sigil--no tricks required. But you'll need to fool Kindlegen into believing the extra blank pages contain some sort of actual content (if you don't want them chucked from the resulting kindlebook). That about the gist?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

@Hitch: that's pretty-much what I assumed the OP was talking about.
I didn't know for sure that kindlegen would strip blank content, but I suspected as much. I just knew it wasn't Sigil. I found it a little odd that the OP didn't examine each phase of the process (ODT looks good; epub looks okay; oops! mobi's F'd up) instead of blasting straight through to mobi and wondering where things went pear-shaped.

So in short: you can add all the extra "blank" pages to your epub that you want using Sigil--no tricks required. But you'll need to fool Kindlegen into believing the extra blank pages contain some sort of actual content (if you don't want them chucked from the resulting kindlebook). That about the gist?

That's exactly the gist. You must fooleth KindleGen/KPreviewer, otherwise, it nukes your "empty" elements, whatever they are--paragraphs, pages, yadda.

Diap, you made me chuckle. TY for that.

Hitch

[DiapDealer]

You're welcome.
Everyone loves having a chuckle; and they cost so little give.

[exaltedwombat]

Would your empty page be ruined by a small decoration? Some equivalent of "This page intentionally left blank"?

(But consider WHY that is often printed on a blank page. I still think you're chasing something that isn't desirable.)

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

But be careful. Ebooks are not fascimilies of printed books, and shouldn't attempt to be. On an ereader, flipping to a blank page will be perceived as a glitch. Anything but restful!

I think the hardest thing for a new author-publisher to get his head around is that e-books don't want to be designed. The worst case is the poet who views typography as part of his or her art. Almost as bad is the author who has never actually been published in real life.

Just as there are no actual pages in an e-book, there are no verso and recto pages. Good grief, there isn't even (or shouldn't be) a half-title page! The copyright page needn't (and, I would argue, shouldn't) follow the title page, but can (and arguably should) go at the back of the book.

And there certainly should be no blank pages.

If any or all of these design features seem crucial, there is probably something lacking in the text.