Real books vs Kobo

ploum · 05-01-2014, 05:44 PM

I've read a very interesting article about the difference between real books and ereaders.

TL;DR : we may inconsciously gather more informations than we think from the phisicality of the books, something which is lost with ereaders.

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/reading...-versus-paper/

On my own level, I would like to add something. When I first started to read ebooks before buying a Kobo, I was using FBReader. FBReader has a very very nice feature, never seen anywhere : in the footer of the page, there's a very subtle gauge which shows you your position in the current book. This gauge (or progress bar) has mark for every chapter. This is very subtle, so not disturbing while reading. But I started to realize how useful it was. I was having a clear vision of the book, of its chapters structure, of my position.

[Image violates guidelines for size - MODERATOR]

I'm really sad that there's no such feature on my Kobo. I really miss it.

embryo · 05-01-2014, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ploum

I'm really sad that there's no such feature on my Kobo. I really miss it.

You can always put Android on it and Viola!

PeterT · 05-01-2014, 07:11 PM

Why would I want a viola on my device? Or even a double bass?

embryo · 05-01-2014, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterT

Why would I want a viola on my device? Or even a double bass?

... and without even headphones!
A challenge for the imagination...

jbcohen · 05-01-2014, 09:13 PM

A difference with printed books is all well and good, except some of us (like me) went digital with our books, stopping all printed books all together out of necessity. I had so many printed books that I was unable to move around in the basement of my house, which is where I kept my library. I had so many that they filled up one floor of the house and looked like they were going to take over a second level of he home. I went digital with my books to stop the growth of the printed book library, I was getting pushed out of my home.

My wife turned to me one day and said "You better get one of those electronic book readers, we are getting pushed out of our home by the books".

filmo · 05-01-2014, 10:39 PM

When I had jury duty no electronic devices including my Kobo were not allowed. Paper books were OK.

cybmole · 05-02-2014, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmo

When I had jury duty no electronic devices including my Kobo were not allowed. Paper books were OK.

so reading a paperback while" listening" to the boring parts of the trial was OK ?

DNSB · 05-02-2014, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybmole

so reading a paperback while" listening" to the boring parts of the trial was OK ?

I suspect that they are afraid of a juror being influenced by what on they could read on the web. The only time I was on jury duty, no newspapers and no TV or radio news was the order of the day. I did have a couple of dead-tree books to read when not in the courtroom but even those had to be approved. I could read Larry Niven stories -- the death penalty for jaywalking didn't seem to be an issue, I could read Niven and Pournelle's Oath of Fealty but I couldn't read Joseph Wambaugh's The Blue Knight though I couldn't see how it had any relationship to a burglary and possession of stolen property case.

Weird and wonderful to put it mildy.

Regards,
David

EndlessWaves · 05-02-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ploum

On my own level, I would like to add something. When I first started to read ebooks before buying a Kobo, I was using FBReader. FBReader has a very very nice feature, never seen anywhere : in the footer of the page, there's a very subtle gauge which shows you your position in the current book. This gauge (or progress bar) has mark for every chapter. This is very subtle, so not disturbing while reading. But I started to realize how useful it was. I was having

Personally I would say the lack of any progress indicator is a great strength of the eBook, at least when it comes to novels. It allows authors much more flexibility in story length and plotting compared to a paper book, where knowing the size of the book and how close to the end you are gives certain preconceptions that the author needs to satisfy if the reader isn't to be disappointed.

And that will hold true generally. A lot of the 'research' about paper versus ePaper is of course going to find in favour of paper because almost all of the current traditions and styles of writing were developed for paper.

cybmole · 05-02-2014, 01:31 PM

would they have allowed a John Grisham collection ?
http://www.jgrisham.com/books/

ploum · 05-02-2014, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EndlessWaves

And that will hold true generally. A lot of the 'research' about paper versus ePaper is of course going to find in favour of paper because almost all of the current traditions and styles of writing were developed for paper.

That's a really interesting quote. It really mades me think.

Kasper Hviid · 05-02-2014, 02:18 PM

Good article. When I have read a paper book, I sometimes needs to go back and re-read a certain piece of information. For some reason, I'm almost always sure wether the information can be found on the left or right page. So I think it's true that a books physical appearence plays a role in the way we absorb knowledge. Also, I'm on page 297 of 388 in MACHINE OF DEATH ... but I don't have that feeling of conquest I would have if it has been a physical book.
"Memory palace" techniques uses imaginary locations to boost memory. Maybe paper books are better remembered because our mind can store the info together with our mental image of the physical book?

TechniSol · 05-03-2014, 12:22 AM

I wonder that it may be more of the case that we tend to scan things presented on electronic displays and that may become a learned behavior. Perhaps it just requires a different effort to read on an electronic display rather than a book.

In the past I found that reading documents on the web on a monitor did not foster the retention that I possessed when printing them and reading them on paper. After reading on e-ink for some time now, I don't believe there is much if any difference in retention. I further wonder that one must make an adjustment to relax and abandon the scanning reflex that we've developed probably as a reaction to all the clutter that surrounds the information we really want from the dross of ads and links found on the average web page.

I think there may be something to the idea that books are a bit different spatially with opposing pages providing some change in overall view. The mind very quickly ignores things that don't appear to change. Maybe retention would improve more rapidly if alternating pages were rendered offset from center in opposing directions as with a book... That'd be a simple study.

Joques · 05-03-2014, 01:15 AM

I think all of this is highly individual and it is difficult to draw any general conclusions. Personally I don't perceive any difference in retention, in fact there are a few books in my collection from about the time when I made the switch from paper to eink where I have no idea whether I read them on paper or my old Sony PRS-600. I have both versions. Which did I read? Impossible to tell.

And I'm 40.

Poppaea · 05-03-2014, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joques

And I'm 40.

Which might either mean you have lived half of your life expectancy or outlived by a couple of years, depending on the country you live in.

So, what exactly do you want to tell us with this number?

Anyway, I too do remember quite exactly where I saw a certain information in a physical book, right down to the page number, but not able to do the same with an ebook. With ebooks its like there are about three parts (beginning, center and end of book) to which I can narrow it down, but thats about it.

This also explains why I am certain if I read a book on the reader (have had one since 2010) or in paper form.

05-01-2014, 05:44 PM	#1
ploum Zealot Posts: 147 Karma: 22818 Join Date: Apr 2013 Device: Pocketbook Touch HD 3 + koreader	Real books vs Kobo I've read a very interesting article about the difference between real books and ereaders. TL;DR : we may inconsciously gather more informations than we think from the phisicality of the books, something which is lost with ereaders. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/reading...-versus-paper/ On my own level, I would like to add something. When I first started to read ebooks before buying a Kobo, I was using FBReader. FBReader has a very very nice feature, never seen anywhere : in the footer of the page, there's a very subtle gauge which shows you your position in the current book. This gauge (or progress bar) has mark for every chapter. This is very subtle, so not disturbing while reading. But I started to realize how useful it was. I was having a clear vision of the book, of its chapters structure, of my position. [Image violates guidelines for size - MODERATOR] I'm really sad that there's no such feature on my Kobo. I really miss it. Last edited by Dr. Drib; 05-01-2014 at 08:38 PM.

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05-01-2014, 07:11 PM	#3
PeterT Grand Sorcerer Posts: 13,458 Karma: 78880114 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Toronto Device: Libra H2O, Libra Colour	Why would I want a viola on my device? Or even a double bass?

05-01-2014, 09:13 PM	#5
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	A difference with printed books is all well and good, except some of us (like me) went digital with our books, stopping all printed books all together out of necessity. I had so many printed books that I was unable to move around in the basement of my house, which is where I kept my library. I had so many that they filled up one floor of the house and looked like they were going to take over a second level of he home. I went digital with my books to stop the growth of the printed book library, I was getting pushed out of my home. My wife turned to me one day and said "You better get one of those electronic book readers, we are getting pushed out of our home by the books".

05-01-2014, 10:39 PM	#6
filmo Wizard Posts: 1,326 Karma: 1077205 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kobo Touch, Sony T1, Kobo Mini	When I had jury duty no electronic devices including my Kobo were not allowed. Paper books were OK.

05-02-2014, 01:31 PM	#10
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	would they have allowed a John Grisham collection ? http://www.jgrisham.com/books/

05-02-2014, 02:18 PM	#12
Kasper Hviid Zealot Posts: 141 Karma: 2784614 Join Date: Nov 2012 Device: none	Good article. When I have read a paper book, I sometimes needs to go back and re-read a certain piece of information. For some reason, I'm almost always sure wether the information can be found on the left or right page. So I think it's true that a books physical appearence plays a role in the way we absorb knowledge. Also, I'm on page 297 of 388 in MACHINE OF DEATH ... but I don't have that feeling of conquest I would have if it has been a physical book. "Memory palace" techniques uses imaginary locations to boost memory. Maybe paper books are better remembered because our mind can store the info together with our mental image of the physical book?

05-03-2014, 12:22 AM	#13
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	I wonder that it may be more of the case that we tend to scan things presented on electronic displays and that may become a learned behavior. Perhaps it just requires a different effort to read on an electronic display rather than a book. In the past I found that reading documents on the web on a monitor did not foster the retention that I possessed when printing them and reading them on paper. After reading on e-ink for some time now, I don't believe there is much if any difference in retention. I further wonder that one must make an adjustment to relax and abandon the scanning reflex that we've developed probably as a reaction to all the clutter that surrounds the information we really want from the dross of ads and links found on the average web page. I think there may be something to the idea that books are a bit different spatially with opposing pages providing some change in overall view. The mind very quickly ignores things that don't appear to change. Maybe retention would improve more rapidly if alternating pages were rendered offset from center in opposing directions as with a book... That'd be a simple study.

05-03-2014, 01:15 AM	#14
Joques Addict Posts: 294 Karma: 107414 Join Date: May 2013 Device: Kobo Glo	I think all of this is highly individual and it is difficult to draw any general conclusions. Personally I don't perceive any difference in retention, in fact there are a few books in my collection from about the time when I made the switch from paper to eink where I have no idea whether I read them on paper or my old Sony PRS-600. I have both versions. Which did I read? Impossible to tell. And I'm 40.

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