send to device - series

[Haltlos]

Hello,

why does calibre cripple some series like "The Bla Blubb" to "Bla Blubb, The" when using {series} in the filename template? It makes absolut no sense to me to make such a behavior the default. Where is the switch for that - i looked all over the settings but failed to find them.

lg

Torsten

[theducks]

Cripples
A major part of the world uses Library order'

Preferences: Tweaks: You want 'Strictly Alphabetical"

IIRC it also affect Title sort

[Haltlos]

Beeing a 'user' i prefer readability over such academic things.

Thanks

[chaley]

Originally Posted by Haltlos

Beeing a 'user' i prefer readability over such academic things.

Thanks

It isn't at all academic. I would go nuts if the series "The Dragonriders of Pern" were sorted under "T" and not "D", or if series or titles in French were sorted under "L" (Le/la quelque chose). I don't read German but I imagine many who do would not want everything sorted under "D" (Die, Der, Das). On the other hand, some people really do want titles and series sorted by articles, which is why we added the tweak a few years ago.

One could make the argument that calibre's template language has evolved to the point where the user could make the choice to use title or title_sort. This is true, but changing calibre's base behavior is not something to be done lightly. Calibre has used title_sort instead of title in save templates for nigh on 6 years. Changing that behavior would disturb a *lot* of people.

[Sabardeyn]

I think, when it comes to Library Order, their is an underlying issue: the title is unchanged.

If calibre is going to have Library Order it should do a full implementation - it should display articles of speech at the end of the title. I am not suggesting that calibre should alter the title on disk, just the manner in which it displays that title.

My first thought whenever I have an alphabetical listing and I see the letter of the first word is something unexpected, I assume my metadata is wrong. I immediately try to correct it - except nothing is wrong with my data! Now, for a single book I encounter this issue once in awhile. But with hundreds or thousands of books, I'm going to see this problem regularly. This constant aggravation is why so many users switch from Library Order to Strictly Alphabetical. I believe it is this inconsistent naming convention in calibre - the partial implementation of Library Order - that I think bothers people most.

If Library Order means that the book is going to be sorted under B, then it should be displayed under B as well, because the title starts with a B word.

[itimpi]

I must admit this is an area where you are unlikely to get agreement. I personally LIKE the fact that there is a display format and a sort format that can be different. I like to sort by library order but still have articles displayed at the start when appropriate.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by itimpi

I must admit this is an area where you are unlikely to get agreement. I personally LIKE the fact that there is a display format and a sort format that can be different. I like to sort by library order but still have articles displayed at the start when appropriate.

So do I.

[Sabardeyn]

Originally Posted by itimpi

I must admit this is an area where you are unlikely to get agreement.

Sure I can obtain agreement... Hmm, now where did I place my sock puppet collection?

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by Sabardeyn

I think, when it comes to Library Order, their is an underlying issue: the title is unchanged.

If calibre is going to have Library Order it should do a full implementation - it should display articles of speech at the end of the title. I am not suggesting that calibre should alter the title on disk, just the manner in which it displays that title.

Calibre currently has full implementation of library order. Library order by definition originated in Libraries and as such the sort was changed but the titles of the books were never changed.

Originally Posted by Sabardeyn

This constant aggravation is why so many users switch from Library Order to Strictly Alphabetical. I believe it is this inconsistent naming convention in calibre - the partial implementation of Library Order - that I think bothers people most.

You may well be correct, but just because the technology makes it easy to do as you suggest doesn't make it the best way. However, if you want this you can create a custom Title column based on {title_sort} and hide the original column.

Originally Posted by itimpi

I must admit this is an area where you are unlikely to get agreement. I personally LIKE the fact that there is a display format and a sort format that can be different. I like to sort by library order but still have articles displayed at the start when appropriate.

I have to say that I too prefer the traditional implementation of library sort.

[Sabardeyn]

Originally Posted by DoctorOhh

Calibre currently has full implementation of library order. Library order by definition originated in Libraries and as such the sort was changed but the titles of the books were never changed.

This problem is one of perspective, because I believe the three of you (Itimpi, Chaley and yourself) see the book view as browsing the titles along your virtual bookshelf.

I don't and never did.

The book view is equivalent to the card catalog to me. The card catalog has always filed it's books in library order - that is, articles of speech are appended to the end of the title. This is why I state that calibre only has a partial implementation of library order. I also think that a good number of the folks using strictly alphabetical have been thinking along similar lines, semi-consciously. Quite honestly, I never thought enough about this issue for it to fully register until DoctorOhh's quoted comment, above.

And I'm not asking for the book titles to be changed - I haven't said a word about the cover browser or grid! It is the cover browser or cover grid which equates, from my perspective, to my virtual bookshelf. That is, after all, where I can see and browse through the book covers. You don't see book covers in the card catalog.

Now, do I think I convinced you? No. Do I think anything is going to be changed? No. My only interest in this post is to convey the idea that perhaps this disconnect in perspective has caused unnecessary confusion among users who have also made the unconscious equivalency of the book view being calibre's card catalog.

[itimpi]

There is nothing in Calibre that stops you storing Titles in library format if that is what you want.

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by DoctorOhh

if you want this you can create a custom Title column based on {title_sort} and hide the original column.

@Sabardeyn I gave you a real solution, have you tried it?

Originally Posted by Sabardeyn

This problem is one of perspective, because I believe the three of you (Itimpi, Chaley and yourself) see the book view as browsing the titles along your virtual bookshelf.

True, it is a matter of perspective and apparently loosely based on community standards. Library order as implemented in calibre is also the default in Plex which I use for managing my videos. True, 2 programs is an extremely small sample, but they are the two I use most at my house.

Calibre's library order for titles is consistent with the default Author sort / Author column, which sorts by last name but by default shows First name Last name.

I fully understand your point of view and isn't nice that calibre has the flexibility to allow you to create exactly what you're looking for. Maybe at some point Kovid will find the time to provide the option to show Title sort in the Title column but until then a custom column is an easy work around.

Originally Posted by itimpi

There is nothing in Calibre that stops you storing Titles in library format if that is what you want.

True.

[Sabardeyn]

Originally Posted by DoctorOhh

@Sabardeyn I gave you a real solution, have you tried it?

[... snip ...]

isn't nice that calibre has the flexibility to allow you to create exactly what you're looking for. Maybe at some point Kovid will find the time to provide the option to show Title sort in the Title column but until then a custom column is an easy work around.

Reading your suggestion I doubted that it would function as I wanted (similar to title in all ways other than displaying articles of speech), but I did create a test database. While a custom column (derived from other columns with {title_sort} as my template) displays the correct info, it cannot be edited via the book view. Clicking on the cell opens the template editor window. It does not set the cursor in the cell's contents as would occur if you click in the normal title cell.

Just in case, did I create this column correctly? Perhaps I've missed something?

Originally Posted by itimpi

There is nothing in Calibre that stops you storing Titles in library format if that is what you want.

You're correct of course. But I didn't really want a file structure with a folder named "Bla Blubb_ The" as it is counter intuitive if a manual search is required. (Yes I know, I shouldn't be touching the file structure directly.)

[DoctorOhh]

Originally Posted by Sabardeyn

Reading your suggestion I doubted that it would function as I wanted (similar to title in all ways other than displaying articles of speech), but I did create a test database. While a custom column (derived from other columns with {title_sort} as my template) displays the correct info, it cannot be edited via the book view. Clicking on the cell opens the template editor window. It does not set the cursor in the cell's contents as would occur if you click in the normal title cell.

Just in case, did I create this column correctly? Perhaps I've missed something?

You didn't miss anything.