Kobo deleting sideloaded files

[Elfwreck]

I recently got a Kobo Mini; I have no idea if this is a Mini-only problem or a wider Kobo software issue.

I read a lot of non-ebook files: rtf and html. I've found that if I connect to my computer to edit the files on the Kobo, sometimes they vanish when I disconnect--or at least, they're not visible in the library and when I reconnect, they're gone.

I'm still sorting out what settings do this. Opening HTML files in Microsoft Word seems to mark them for deletion (and yeah, I know how bad MS Word is for HTML; I had reasons). I switched an RTF file to "no widow/orphan control, don't keep lines together" and that killed it.

I've never seen this in an ebook reader before. I've known plenty that wouldn't open some files with code they didn't like, or that would hang on trying to open (Sonys will freeze if you try to open an epub with an image link that goes to the internet instead of an internal images folder), but I've never seen one delete files before. This is very annoying.

[GeoffR]

Don't edit the books while they are on the device. If the Kobo firmware detects that the book has changed it will be deleted as you have found, but if it fails to detect the change then worse things can happen, as the informatin in the book may no longer match information in the device's database.

Solution is to delete the book from the device, edit the original kept on your computer, then reload the modified book.

Edit: Just to be clear, I mean delete the book using the device's delete function, don't delete it while the device is connected to the computer..

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Solution is to delete the book from the device, edit the original kept on your computer, then reload the modified book.

GAAAH. The whole point of wanting a reader that can deal with HTML and RTF is to be able to edit them on the fly. (Maybe that's not why everyone wants them, but it's very much why I want them.) I use my ereader to read rough drafts of various documents; I want to be able to update them with changes or new formatting. I don't always have access to the original files; I suppose I can make more use of Dropbox, but it's a hassle to download, edit, connect, and sideload instead of just connecting the device and editing the files directly. (I wonder if it'd work if I renamed them, so they didn't clash with existing database listings?.)

I want to be able to edit ebooks on the device itself; if I were happy with ebooks on the device needing to be deleted/re-uploaded for changes, I'd have a Kindle.

I'll keep it in mind, but this definitely moves the Kobo into the "auxiliary reader; not for serious work" category.

[meeera]

It sounds like what you really need is a tablet device (or smartphone) with word processing software, not an ereader? Editing documents is not what ereaders are for.

[davidfor]

GeoffR is right about what is happening. There is a workaround to this that calibre uses when sending a new copy of the book. The way the device tells that the book has changed is the file size. The internal database records the file size, and if the size of the book on the disk doesn't match this, the book get removed from the disk and the database. The Kobo driver in calibre updates the file size when it resends a book if it changes. You can easily do this yourself.

But, if you keep the book on the SD card, it is handled differently. In that case, the database details of the book are removed, but the book is not. In fact, the book is added to the database as a new book.

There is another but. Firmware 2.8.1 changes the handling for books in the main memory. This will now match the handling for the SD card. The book gets removed from the database and then added as a new book. This means you lose the reading position, shelves and bookmarks, but you don't lose the book.

Oh, the reason Kobo has been doing this is the because of the way they handle books. The first time they see them, the book is processed to extract the metadata and TOC. This is loaded into the internal database. The stored TOC is used for navigation. If the book is replace, the stored TOC could be out of sync with the book and that will cause problems. Recent firmware handles this better than older firmware.

[GeoffR]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

(I wonder if it'd work if I renamed them, so they didn't clash with existing database listings?.)

If you save the edited book with a new filename then that will work, as it will be loaded as a new book (it is OK if the new book has the same title etc.). You can then delete the original or not as you want. (but use the device's menu to do any deletions, or Calibre's remove book function, but not Windows or other operating system tools which don't know to clean up the device's database properly afterwards)

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

GAAAH. The whole point of wanting a reader that can deal with HTML and RTF is to be able to edit them on the fly. (Maybe that's not why everyone wants them, but it's very much why I want them.) I use my ereader to read rough drafts of various documents; I want to be able to update them with changes or new formatting. I don't always have access to the original files; I suppose I can make more use of Dropbox, but it's a hassle to download, edit, connect, and sideload instead of just connecting the device and editing the files directly. (I wonder if it'd work if I renamed them, so they didn't clash with existing database listings?.)

I want to be able to edit ebooks on the device itself; if I were happy with ebooks on the device needing to be deleted/re-uploaded for changes, I'd have a Kindle.

I'll keep it in mind, but this definitely moves the Kobo into the "auxiliary reader; not for serious work" category.

Given that you are not editing the file using the Kobo software,a couple of workarounds come to mind. The easiest is to start using version numbers in your file names. The next choice would be to copy the file back to whatever device you are using for editing, disconnect the Kobo, delete the file from the Kobo using the Kobo UI, reconnect it and copy the modified version back.

Another option, if available to you, has already been mentioned which would be to use Calibre to handle the file copy to and from the Kobo.

Out of a possibly morbid curiosity, since you have copies of the "original files" on your Kobo, why did you say that you don't always have access to them? Again, versioning might be a good idea so you can tell quickly which is the "latest and greatest".

Regards,
David

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by meeera

It sounds like what you really need is a tablet device (or smartphone) with word processing software, not an ereader? Editing documents is not what ereaders are for.

I do ebook production for a publisher. I read a lot of short stories, and want to be able to update them--add chapter breaks, search-and-replace typos, etc. Sometimes I change the titles or authors in epub metadata. (Tablets aren't going to be any better about letting me edit epubs.)

Tablets aren't designed for reading word docs or HTML files as ebooks, and I really want the long battery life and small size.

The Sony PRS-505 and 600 work great for my needs, but they're larger than I like. I prefer a 5" screen and would like a faster processor than the older Sonys have. I was hoping the Kobo would be my new "working ereader," but it seems like it's not designed to allow that much editing of the internal files.

I can manage with version-number workarounds, but that starts to clutter the reader, and using the internal software to delete ebooks is a nuisance for several files at a time. The navigation is a nuisance for the dozens I have on it now; I can't imagine how it'd work with a few hundred.

Originally Posted by davidfor

But, if you keep the book on the SD card, it is handled differently. In that case, the database details of the book are removed, but the book is not. In fact, the book is added to the database as a new book.

The Kobo Mini doesn't have an SD card slot. I'll keep it in mind in case I wind up with another Kobo reader.

The book gets removed from the database and then added as a new book. This means you lose the reading position, shelves and bookmarks, but you don't lose the book.

I'd be perfectly happy with "any changes to the file means it's counted as a new book." I was just shocked to find the file deleted rather than updated or invisible to the Kobo.

Recent firmware handles this better than older firmware.

How recent? I bought my Mini a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Given that you are not editing the file using the Kobo software,a couple of workarounds come to mind. The easiest is to start using version numbers in your file names.

I'll probably do this.

The next choice would be to copy the file back to whatever device you are using for editing,

I was editing them in the Kobo--connect to the computer as USB drive, open the .rtf or .html file in an editor, make changes, save and close.

Out of a possibly morbid curiosity, since you have copies of the "original files" on your Kobo, why did you say that you don't always have access to them? Again, versioning might be a good idea so you can tell quickly which is the "latest and greatest".

I'd meant that I don't have access to the files I'd copied to the Kobo; I have the one on the Kobo, which I may have edited since it got there. I bounce between a desktop and two laptops, and am used to using my ereader as portable ebook storage in addition to holding files I want to read.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The Kobo Mini doesn't have an SD card slot. I'll keep it in mind in case I wind up with another Kobo reader.

Sorry, I didn't read the post fully.
[/QUOTE]
I'd be perfectly happy with "any changes to the file means it's counted as a new book." I was just shocked to find the file deleted rather than updated or invisible to the Kobo.
[/QUOTE]
That makes two of us. It took me a while to work out what was going on.

How recent? I bought my Mini a few weeks ago.

The last real change I noticed was probably three or four firmware versions ago. But, 2.8.1 should do what you want. It isn't deleting the book, just removing the book details and adding it as a new book. Your Mini should update sometime in the next few days, or you can download and install it yourself. See https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=185660 for the links and instructions.

I'd meant that I don't have access to the files I'd copied to the Kobo; I have the one on the Kobo, which I may have edited since it got there. I bounce between a desktop and two laptops, and am used to using my ereader as portable ebook storage in addition to holding files I want to read.

Thanks for that explanation. I can see why you want what you are asking for. I think 2.8.1 solves it for you. Otherwise, versioning the file would be the way to go.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

How recent? I bought my Mini a few weeks ago.

Recent as in the last couple of days. Check the Firmware Download thread in the Kobo Developer's Forum -- https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=185660 for the links to sideload the firmware if it has not automatically updated.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I was editing them in the Kobo--connect to the computer as USB drive, open the .rtf or .html file in an editor, make changes, save and close.

I'd meant that I don't have access to the files I'd copied to the Kobo; I have the one on the Kobo, which I may have edited since it got there. I bounce between a desktop and two laptops, and am used to using my ereader as portable ebook storage in addition to holding files I want to read.

When I was doing some stuff like that (multiple laptops and computers), versioning was my lifesaver since I could keep track of which were the newer files and, at time, which were the last known good files.

Regards,
David