"Other " Civil War recommendations

[stonetools]

Rising out of a kerfuffle on the original thread about the US Civil War, I thought that the positive thing to do is to start a thread for recommendations about "other " (none-US) civil wars.

Several major ones have been suggested:


The English Civil War
The Spanish Civil War
The Russian Civil War


The term "civil war" is a bit murky, though . When is a civil war a civil war, and not a rebellion ? (The US Civil War was originally described as the "War of the Rebellion".) Was the Vietnam conflict (1945-75) a civil war?
Let's just keep it to wars that are named as civil wars, in order to keep the thread from getting too unwieldy.
Looking forward to some recommends. I know beans about the Spanish Civil War, for example , but from all reports its a crucial event in the history of contemporary western Europe,and highly influential to the course of the much larger conflagration that broke out a few years later.

[piperclassique]

L'espoir by André Malraux. Spanish civil war, written while it was still fresh. The author flew on the Republican side. Fiction with a sound grounding in real life.
My copy is a ratty ancient paperback. I expect there is an english translation someplace, but not I think anywhere as ebook. The copy I have is published by Gallimard, first pub 1937.

[IcecreamLtDan]

Spent a great deal of time in Spain when I was in the Air Force and began to read a lot about the history of the country. Then I stumbled upon an old military surplus Mosin-Nagant that has markings identifying it as being used in the Spanish Civil War, so I can recommend this book as one I enjoyed and I see it's available as an Ebook now.

The_Battle_for_Spain

Then there's this book which discusses the overthrow of Russia's government near the end of WWI, though it focuses mostly on the involvement of American troops that were involved.

When Hell Froze Over

[Mike L]

Where I live, almost our entire history between the 12th Century and 1746 seems like one long civil war.

Mike

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Where I live, almost our entire history between the 12th Century and 1746 seems like one long civil war.

Mike

Civil war? Or a series of wars between the Anglo-Saxon core and the Celtic fringe of the British Isles?
These things can be interpreted different ways.

[stonetools]

On the Spanish Civil War, the novel "Guernica" is just $1.99 on AMAZON

[BenG]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Rising out of a kerfuffle on the original thread about the US Civil War, I thought that the positive thing to do is to start a thread for recommendations about "other " (none-US) civil wars.

The U.S. war wasn't a civil war; it was a war between the states. (Or at least that's what unreconstructed southerners called it.)

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Civil war? Or a series of wars between the Anglo-Saxon core and the Celtic fringe of the British Isles?

No. Nothing to do with Anglo Saxons or Celtic fringes. I'm talking about wars between different factions within the same country, struggling for control of the country. I think that's more-or-less what "civil war" means, although I agree it can be interpreted in different ways.

Mike

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by BenG

The U.S. war wasn't a civil war; it was a war between the states. (Or at least that's what unreconstructed southerners called it.)

I suppose it depends whether you think the Confederacy consisted of "states in revolt" or states that had ceded from the Union.

Mike

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Mike L

No. Nothing to do with Anglo Saxons or Celtic fringes. I'm talking about wars between different factions within the same country, struggling for control of the country. I think that's more-or-less what "civil war" means, although I agree it can be interpreted in different ways.

Mike

If you look at the Wars of the Roses, that really is a classic civil war between factions . If you look at Edward I's conquest of Wales or his invasion of Scotland (Braveheart, Bannockburn, and all that),then it fits more the Anglo-Saxon/Celtic thing.
I think that we can both agree that even if we think of the UK as now a united, peaceful "kingdom by the sea." it was not always thus. That unity and peace was hard won.

Those who have good recommends on the Wars of the Roses or other English civil wars, please chime in.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by BenG

The U.S. war wasn't a civil war; it was a war between the states. (Or at least that's what unreconstructed southerners called it.)

They call it The War of Northern Agression.

Some say that the Civil War is still going on today-just by other means.

Originally Posted by stonetools

If you look at the Wars of the Roses, that really is a classic civil war between factions . If you look at Edward I's conquest of Wales or his invasion of Scotland (Braveheart, Bannockburn, and all that),then it fits more the Anglo-Saxon/Celtic thing.
I think that we can both agree that even if we think of the UK as now a united, peaceful "kingdom by the sea." it was not always thus. That unity and peace was hard won.

Those who have good recommends on the Wars of the Roses or other English civil wars, please chime in.

I recall really liking the The Pageant of England series by Thomas B Costain that covers all of the English kings from William the Conqueror through Richard III. To cover the War of the Roses you would be interested in volumes 2-4. All of these are now available as ebooks.

Then there is of course Shakespeare's dramatizations Henry VI (parts 1-3) and Richard III.

Originally Posted by stonetools

They call it The War of Northern Agression.

Some say that the Civil War is still going on today-just by other means.

Yes, and they can often be distinguished by there wishing to display the Confederate battle flag when ever they can. Hoods and robes are totally out of fashion now though.

[IcecreamLtDan]

That's actually what separates the "Red Necks" from those who understand the history of the American Civil War. The flag that some consider the Confederate battle flag is not, in fact the Confederate battle flag, but the Confederate Naval Jack. In most instances, the people who I see flying that flag have no idea of its meaning and fly it because they think it's "cool" or it somehow describes them as being a rebel, and yes, unfortunately in some cases, racist as well.

Additionally, even now a lot of the state flags flown by states that seceded from the union have colors or symbols in them that relate to their heritage of being part of the Confederacy. The color blue is used in a lot of them to remember the "Bonnie Blue" flag which was a symbol of the succession. Others have designs reminiscent of the "Stars and Bars" which was the first official flag of the Confederacy. Obviously, over the years there's been several public protests of use of other, more obvious Confederate symbolism in the state flags and other symbols used by southern states. In my own case, I live in NC and consider it to be simply part of my heritage. The state flag of North Carolina has symbols that relate to both the "Bonnie Blue" and "Stars and Bars" flags of the confederacy. Take a look at the current state flag of Mississippi for even more symbolism if you like.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by BenG

The U.S. war wasn't a civil war; it was a war between the states. (Or at least that's what unreconstructed southerners called it.)

That's what the unreconstructed southerners call it now. The term "War Between the States" was rarely used during the war.

The Confederate States of America was arguably a more centralized country than the U.S.A. One of their biggest grievances was the situation in which a state could refuse cooperation with out-of-state slave-catchers.

During and immediately after the war, Northern forces often used the term "War of the Rebellion", while the Southern equivalent was "War for Southern Independence".