Kindle Page Number Proposal

Larla · 01-02-2012, 07:37 AM

To me the most useful information to display would be screen page numbers. They should be shown at the bottom of every page and should be of the form: page x of y.

Sure they change if you change the font or spacing. So what? The computer can instantly calculate what the new current screen page # and total number of screen pages are if there is some format change.

This approach has the advantage of telling you exactly where you are in the current e-book you are reading. It also tells you how many "next screens" you will have to hit before you are finished.

It is not clear how useful an actual print page # would be. For one thing, the total # of pages vary depending on whether it is hardback or paperback.

To be fair, the one drawback I see with screen page #'s is that they would not be as useful in referring to a part of a book to another person. However, my main use of page #'s is to tell me where I am in the book I am reading.

DiapDealer · 01-02-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

To be fair, the one drawback I see with screen page #'s is that they would not be as useful in referring to a part of a book to another person. However, my main use of page #'s is to tell me where I am in the book I am reading.

That's not a small drawback at all. Your solution would make it virtually impossible to reference specific portions of an ebook in a book club or academic setting. Screen pages don't really exist. They're ephemeral and ever changing from font-size (and even font) to font-size. I think it's much more important to have a universal reference number that isn't dependent on other data. That way, I don't have to tell someone; "I'm on page 103 (on the fourth largest font-setting, using a customized helvetica font—font-file attached for reference)"

The usefulness of the printed page # would be the same book club/academic scenario above where you had a mixture of printed books and ebooks. The printed page # that Kindle books refer to is based on a specific print edition. ISBN given in the product details.

dwig · 01-02-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's not a small drawback at all. ...

I agree with DiapDealer wholeheartedly.

I think the current Kindle system is the best approach. "Pages" is only used when referencing a particular printed edition where real pages actually exist and "location" is used to reference the current location/position in the ebook (where pages don't exist). "Location" is consistant across all readers regardless of platform, screen size, and display settings.

For me, the progress bar is the most useful. I rarely pay any attention to the number of "locations" in a particular book. The progress bar gives me as good a reference to where I am in the book as is really needed, particularily when there are tick marks letting me know when I'm near the end of a chapter.

Larla · 01-02-2012, 08:15 AM

It is a small drawback to me but obviously not to you and perhaps many others as well. It seems like a compromise is the best solution:

1) Display screen page #'s/total screen pages #'s at the bottom of each page. This is something that would/could be looked at all the time while you are reading.
2) When you want to note an actual print page # then you perform a special action (e.g. on KT tap the top of the page to display additional information). This would be done infrequently and an extra action would not be onerous.

DiapDealer · 01-02-2012, 08:27 AM

This is something that's come up from time to time since the very first Kindle model was released. Each new wave of Kindle owners brings it out of the woodwork.

If they've (Amazon) not been convinced that they need to change it by now, I'm fairly certain that's an indicator that the current system works for (or is at least satisfactory to) the majority of the user-base. If and when your solution seems to make the most sense to the vast majority of the user-base (and the developers)... I'm sure the change will be made. But I probably wouldn't hold my breath—especially as the concept formerly known as "the page" becomes more and more obscure in the ebook, reflowable e-world.

Jack Tingle · 01-02-2012, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

This is something that's come up from time to time since the very first Kindle model was released. Each new wave of Kindle owners brings it out of the woodwork.

Oh, no, it goes way further back than that. There was kvetching about this in the late 1990s.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

JoeD · 01-02-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

That's not a small drawback at all. Your solution would make it virtually impossible to reference specific portions of an ebook in a book club or academic setting.

If both locations AND screen numbers existed though, you'd have the best of both worlds.

When reading the book and wanting to know how many "pages" are left you'd be able to see the current screen number and total. When you want to point out a specific place in the book for a book club or discussion, use the current location.

I have no need to give others a page to reference although I accept that there are plenty of people who would value that ability, however I do like to remember I'm on page X and have read roughly X pages tonight with X to go. Even if the page total and current page ended up changing with any font change, that'd be fine for many use cases. The progress bar helps to an extent, but I'd still prefer to also have screen x of y at the bottom of the screen.

So in a way there's a need for 3 types of page.

* Location X of Y (as exists now)
* Screen X of Y (for the cases where location is overkill and clunky to use)
* Real page X of Y (for books that support it and have pages set based on the paper edition. This wouldn't replace current screen though as you may have several screens to a single real page etc)

Option to set which is displayed at the base of the screen with the rest appearing on the menu.

My guess as to why this hasn't materialised though, is that a change in font size would require a re-parsing of the entire book up to your current location in order to calculate how many screens have been viewed. Perhaps doing that takes sufficiently long enough that it'd be too much of an inconvenience. Location doesn't suffer from that since it's just a byte count (or similar). That said, still be nice to have as an option, off by default with a quick note that changing fonts will cause some delay whilst screens are recalculated, if you don't mind the wait, enable it, otherwise leave it off. Having never changed the font size other than once during initial setup, it wouldn't bother me :P

Synamon · 01-02-2012, 12:03 PM

Page numbers seems to be the book equivalent to the hands on a clock. People adjusted to digital watches, you'll adjust to the percentage bar and location information.

RDaneel54 · 01-02-2012, 12:09 PM

I like percentages or location numbers when e-reading. Page numbers will become increasingly useless/non-existent given that more and more books are published only in e-format.

Remember scroll positions?

pidgeon92 · 01-02-2012, 12:48 PM

I really like the precision of location numbers. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

Krad · 01-02-2012, 02:05 PM

Oh just give me how many 'pages' I have until the next chapter.

DiapDealer · 01-02-2012, 02:09 PM

Not gonna happen.

Giggleton · 01-02-2012, 03:55 PM

Percentages are the way to go, JM2C.

bluerfoot · 01-02-2012, 08:57 PM

when reading huge books locations really just become annoying to me. couple that with the progress bar being gone and getting a sense where you are in a book just ain't that great on a kindle. just give me page numbers, even ones that just correspond to the printed book that never change even with the larger or smaller fonts and I would be satisfied. seeing I am at location 6209 of 22304 (or whatever) just doesn't work for me.

SteveEisenberg · 01-02-2012, 10:23 PM

More than half the books I read have footnotes in the back. So none of these systems really work. Right now I am on page 213 out of 562 of The First Tycoon, a biography of Cornelius Vanderbilt. Maybe I am less half done. Or maybe I am two-thirds of the way through. With a paper book, I could easily check where the stuff I am going to read ends. Now it would be too much trouble to find out.

No big deal. But it is a bigger deal for me than page numbers vs. percentages.

Page numbers are tied to an individual printing or font size, and location number aren't intuitive. So if it was up to me, I'd vote for percentages, perhaps with a decimal point.

01-02-2012, 07:37 AM	#1
Larla Addict Posts: 281 Karma: 5262189 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Katy, TX Device: Samsung Tab S5E 12" Tablet	Kindle Page Number Proposal To me the most useful information to display would be screen page numbers. They should be shown at the bottom of every page and should be of the form: page x of y. Sure they change if you change the font or spacing. So what? The computer can instantly calculate what the new current screen page # and total number of screen pages are if there is some format change. This approach has the advantage of telling you exactly where you are in the current e-book you are reading. It also tells you how many "next screens" you will have to hit before you are finished. It is not clear how useful an actual print page # would be. For one thing, the total # of pages vary depending on whether it is hardback or paperback. To be fair, the one drawback I see with screen page #'s is that they would not be as useful in referring to a part of a book to another person. However, my main use of page #'s is to tell me where I am in the book I am reading. Last edited by Larla; 01-02-2012 at 08:07 AM.

01-02-2012, 08:27 AM	#5
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,525 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	This is something that's come up from time to time since the very first Kindle model was released. Each new wave of Kindle owners brings it out of the woodwork. If they've (Amazon) not been convinced that they need to change it by now, I'm fairly certain that's an indicator that the current system works for (or is at least satisfactory to) the majority of the user-base. If and when your solution seems to make the most sense to the vast majority of the user-base (and the developers)... I'm sure the change will be made. But I probably wouldn't hold my breath—especially as the concept formerly known as "the page" becomes more and more obscure in the ebook, reflowable e-world. Last edited by DiapDealer; 01-02-2012 at 08:30 AM.

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01-02-2012, 08:15 AM	#4
Larla Addict Posts: 281 Karma: 5262189 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Katy, TX Device: Samsung Tab S5E 12" Tablet	It is a small drawback to me but obviously not to you and perhaps many others as well. It seems like a compromise is the best solution: 1) Display screen page #'s/total screen pages #'s at the bottom of each page. This is something that would/could be looked at all the time while you are reading. 2) When you want to note an actual print page # then you perform a special action (e.g. on KT tap the top of the page to display additional information). This would be done infrequently and an extra action would not be onerous.

01-02-2012, 12:03 PM	#8
Synamon Lunatic Posts: 1,691 Karma: 4386372 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Land of the Loonie Device: Kindle Paperwhite and Keyboard, Kobo Aura, iPad mini, iPod Touch	Page numbers seems to be the book equivalent to the hands on a clock. People adjusted to digital watches, you'll adjust to the percentage bar and location information.

01-02-2012, 12:09 PM	#9
RDaneel54 Aging Positronic Brain Posts: 633 Karma: 2155452 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Aurora (when off-Earth) Device: Amazon Oasis; iPhone, iPad Mini	I like percentages or location numbers when e-reading. Page numbers will become increasingly useless/non-existent given that more and more books are published only in e-format. Remember scroll positions?

01-02-2012, 12:48 PM	#10
pidgeon92 Wizard Posts: 3,144 Karma: 8426142 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Device: Kindle PW2, Kindle Voyage, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD	I really like the precision of location numbers. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

01-02-2012, 02:05 PM	#11
Krad Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 58 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle	Oh just give me how many 'pages' I have until the next chapter.

01-02-2012, 02:09 PM	#12
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,525 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Not gonna happen.

01-02-2012, 03:55 PM	#13
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	Percentages are the way to go, JM2C.

01-02-2012, 08:57 PM	#14
bluerfoot Zealot Posts: 115 Karma: 42554 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: sony pocketbook 350	when reading huge books locations really just become annoying to me. couple that with the progress bar being gone and getting a sense where you are in a book just ain't that great on a kindle. just give me page numbers, even ones that just correspond to the printed book that never change even with the larger or smaller fonts and I would be satisfied. seeing I am at location 6209 of 22304 (or whatever) just doesn't work for me.

01-02-2012, 10:23 PM	#15
SteveEisenberg Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,400 Karma: 43514536 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: near Philadelphia USA Device: Kindle Kids Edition, Fire HD 10 (11th generation)	More than half the books I read have footnotes in the back. So none of these systems really work. Right now I am on page 213 out of 562 of The First Tycoon, a biography of Cornelius Vanderbilt. Maybe I am less half done. Or maybe I am two-thirds of the way through. With a paper book, I could easily check where the stuff I am going to read ends. Now it would be too much trouble to find out. No big deal. But it is a bigger deal for me than page numbers vs. percentages. Page numbers are tied to an individual printing or font size, and location number aren't intuitive. So if it was up to me, I'd vote for percentages, perhaps with a decimal point.

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