Devil in the details

Kumabjorn · 12-09-2011, 04:20 AM

Finished Allan Folsom's "The Machiavelli Covenant" a few days ago. Not to give too much away but the US President runs away from a coup d'etàt attempt from his cabinet and join forces with a former LAPD detective trying to foil their plans. Incredolous? Well, I'll let you be the judge of that. However, there are a couple of places where he mentions "the president of Spain". Spain has a king as Head of State and a prime minister as Head of Government. This little miss irritated the hell out of me. If he had set the action in Molobistan, obviously I wouldn't have cared one little bit.

Now, did it do that because I had a problem with the basic setup? Or did I get irritated because of sloppy research? I don't know. But I am curious how the rest of you react when you encounter obvious misstakes in a novel.

JeremyR · 12-09-2011, 05:22 AM

I think it's always a case of if you know a lot about the subject, it can bug you.

For instance, most mistakes about space bother me. Particularly ones where people freeze to death when they go out into a vacuum because it's so cold.

Which is true technically, but it's also a vacuum, so the only way to transfer heat from a body is by radiation. So basically you'd have to be dead for a while (not generating any more heat internally) for you to eventually freeze.

Mistakes with guns bother me. The early Shadow novels are terrible about this. Including one where a gang is described as carrying revolvers with one empty chamber, so if they dropped them, it wouldn't go off (which people do, though there is some debate as to whether or not that's necessary). But then he describes them as having to pull the trigger twice to get it to fire because of it, which if of course, is not how revolvers work. The chamber under the hammer when you pull the trigger is not fired, it's rotated as the hammer goes back, and the hammer then falls on the next one (which would be loaded).

And then recently I read a book aimed at providing technical info about crime scene handling written by a former detective, because she hates crime scene mistakes in books (like fingerprint terminology). But she made a couple mistakes about guns, including a mistaken correction of Agatha Christie (who sometimes referred to "automatic revolvers", which actually existed in England while she wrote. Not well known to Americans 60 years later, but common enough at the time, even making an appearance in The Maltese Falcon).

Apache · 12-09-2011, 07:07 AM

So true. Mistakes regarding guns, knives, swords and The Martial Arts all tend to bug me. Also being a jeweler and finding so many misconceptions and mistakes in books, Television and movies really bothers me. If someone doesn't have the knowledge then they should do a little research. With access to The Internet so prevalent, there isn't any excuse for not researching your subject.
Apache

mr ploppy · 12-09-2011, 10:09 AM

It annoys me when motorcycle tyres screach as they go around a corner, or when people on motorcycles have conversations with each other (without any mention of an intercom). I also read one recently where someone releases a motorcycle's handbrake before riding off.

But I blame the editors as much as the writers. That's what they are supposed to be there for.

MSWallack · 12-09-2011, 10:32 AM

I don't mind a little mistake now and then. But a bunch of mistakes do get to me or a mistake that is central to the story or to a character's motivation or actions are inexcusable.

Pookeysgirl · 12-09-2011, 11:01 AM

I've only had this problem once and it was recently. The story had one of the characters getting into a Ford Taurus by pulling the front seat forward and getting into the back. I don't know of any Ford Taurus's being made in a 2 door. I don't know why, but that really bugged me.

Apache · 12-09-2011, 11:39 AM

Don't you love movies where the tires screech on dirt or gravel? I remember Smokey and the Bandit interior shots showed an automatic transmission. Sound effects were of a manual transmission.
Apache

Penforhire · 12-09-2011, 12:49 PM

In the case of a substantial whiff like that, and only if I really like the author's work, I write the author a brief e-mail mentioning what the problem was.

I wrote Robert Ludlum these e-mails several times. I never received a reply but I did my reader's "duty." I did have dialogs with several other authors.

ProfCrash · 12-09-2011, 01:16 PM

It sounds like season two of 24. Palmer is ousted by his Cabinet and Jack Bauer saves his skin and his job. It was a good season.

Pookeysgirl · 12-09-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache

Don't you love movies where the tires screech on dirt or gravel? I remember Smokey and the Bandit interior shots showed an automatic transmission. Sound effects were of a manual transmission.
Apache

Or that in every chase scene one police car would launch into the air and crash down and a totally different car would continue the chase

carpetmojo · 12-09-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

............I also read one recently where someone releases a motorcycle's handbrake before riding off. ...............

Excuse me........ it might have been an early Scott Flying Squirrel...........

ScalyFreak · 12-09-2011, 04:03 PM

Mistakes about computers bother me to no end, though frankly more in movies and TV shows than in books.

I think it also depends on how easy it would have been for the author to find that piece of information via google. Spain is a monarchy, so they don't have a president, and in the European country where I grew up, that is common knowledge to anyone who has made it through third grade. A mistake about a minor detail in a narrowly specialized field, especially a detail that doesn't impact the plot, doesn't bother me that much.

And then we have the book I read last year, where a character was described as being immune to being tazed, because he wasn't able to feel pain. Obviously no one told the author that the reason a tazer paralyses is because it messes up the nerve impulses in the body (they are aslo electricity), not because of the pain. A major part of the plot hinged around this guy ignoring a tazer, so that bothered me a lot more.

mr ploppy · 12-09-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

Excuse me........ it might have been an early Scott Flying Squirrel...........

Could have been, it didn't actually say what brand it was. Only that it was a powerful one that took his breath away. But if it was an old boneshaker you'd think the writer would have made a point of mentioning that?

RainingLemur · 12-09-2011, 06:20 PM

If it's little things here and there, I'm not too concerned. But, when there's some egregious errors with things (like the Spain example used in the OP) can be annoying.

bbqncigars · 12-10-2011, 12:58 AM

This reminds me of my own pet peeve regarding 'clips' vs 'magazines' regarding firearms. Yes, the former is shorter and easier to spell, but it doesn't make it correct. There are few guns that are only loaded via clips, whereas the majority are designed around removable magazines. Belt fed weapons are another story.

12-09-2011, 04:20 AM	#1
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	Devil in the details Finished Allan Folsom's "The Machiavelli Covenant" a few days ago. Not to give too much away but the US President runs away from a coup d'etàt attempt from his cabinet and join forces with a former LAPD detective trying to foil their plans. Incredolous? Well, I'll let you be the judge of that. However, there are a couple of places where he mentions "the president of Spain". Spain has a king as Head of State and a prime minister as Head of Government. This little miss irritated the hell out of me. If he had set the action in Molobistan, obviously I wouldn't have cared one little bit. Now, did it do that because I had a problem with the basic setup? Or did I get irritated because of sloppy research? I don't know. But I am curious how the rest of you react when you encounter obvious misstakes in a novel.

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12-09-2011, 05:22 AM	#2
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	I think it's always a case of if you know a lot about the subject, it can bug you. For instance, most mistakes about space bother me. Particularly ones where people freeze to death when they go out into a vacuum because it's so cold. Which is true technically, but it's also a vacuum, so the only way to transfer heat from a body is by radiation. So basically you'd have to be dead for a while (not generating any more heat internally) for you to eventually freeze. Mistakes with guns bother me. The early Shadow novels are terrible about this. Including one where a gang is described as carrying revolvers with one empty chamber, so if they dropped them, it wouldn't go off (which people do, though there is some debate as to whether or not that's necessary). But then he describes them as having to pull the trigger twice to get it to fire because of it, which if of course, is not how revolvers work. The chamber under the hammer when you pull the trigger is not fired, it's rotated as the hammer goes back, and the hammer then falls on the next one (which would be loaded). And then recently I read a book aimed at providing technical info about crime scene handling written by a former detective, because she hates crime scene mistakes in books (like fingerprint terminology). But she made a couple mistakes about guns, including a mistaken correction of Agatha Christie (who sometimes referred to "automatic revolvers", which actually existed in England while she wrote. Not well known to Americans 60 years later, but common enough at the time, even making an appearance in The Maltese Falcon).

12-09-2011, 07:07 AM	#3
Apache Readaholic Posts: 5,277 Karma: 90000484 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: South Georgia Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"	So true. Mistakes regarding guns, knives, swords and The Martial Arts all tend to bug me. Also being a jeweler and finding so many misconceptions and mistakes in books, Television and movies really bothers me. If someone doesn't have the knowledge then they should do a little research. With access to The Internet so prevalent, there isn't any excuse for not researching your subject. Apache

12-09-2011, 10:09 AM	#4
mr ploppy Feral Underclass Posts: 3,622 Karma: 26821535 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire, tha noz Device: 2nd hand paperback	It annoys me when motorcycle tyres screach as they go around a corner, or when people on motorcycles have conversations with each other (without any mention of an intercom). I also read one recently where someone releases a motorcycle's handbrake before riding off. But I blame the editors as much as the writers. That's what they are supposed to be there for.

12-09-2011, 10:32 AM	#5
MSWallack Right, Except When Wrong Posts: 363 Karma: 4323767 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Indianapolis Device: Kindle Oasis 3 (sometimes iPad Mini).	I don't mind a little mistake now and then. But a bunch of mistakes do get to me or a mistake that is central to the story or to a character's motivation or actions are inexcusable.

12-09-2011, 11:01 AM	#6
Pookeysgirl Wizard Posts: 1,705 Karma: 12696746 Join Date: May 2010 Device: K3, Kobo Mini	I've only had this problem once and it was recently. The story had one of the characters getting into a Ford Taurus by pulling the front seat forward and getting into the back. I don't know of any Ford Taurus's being made in a 2 door. I don't know why, but that really bugged me.

12-09-2011, 11:39 AM	#7
Apache Readaholic Posts: 5,277 Karma: 90000484 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: South Georgia Device: Surface Pro 6 / Galaxy Tab A 8"	Don't you love movies where the tires screech on dirt or gravel? I remember Smokey and the Bandit interior shots showed an automatic transmission. Sound effects were of a manual transmission. Apache

12-09-2011, 12:49 PM	#8
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	In the case of a substantial whiff like that, and only if I really like the author's work, I write the author a brief e-mail mentioning what the problem was. I wrote Robert Ludlum these e-mails several times. I never received a reply but I did my reader's "duty." I did have dialogs with several other authors.

12-09-2011, 01:16 PM	#9
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	It sounds like season two of 24. Palmer is ousted by his Cabinet and Jack Bauer saves his skin and his job. It was a good season.

12-09-2011, 04:03 PM	#12
ScalyFreak Sith Wannabe Posts: 2,034 Karma: 8017430 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: I'm not sure... it's kind of dark. Device: Galaxy Note 4, Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Fire HD, Aluratek Libre	Mistakes about computers bother me to no end, though frankly more in movies and TV shows than in books. I think it also depends on how easy it would have been for the author to find that piece of information via google. Spain is a monarchy, so they don't have a president, and in the European country where I grew up, that is common knowledge to anyone who has made it through third grade. A mistake about a minor detail in a narrowly specialized field, especially a detail that doesn't impact the plot, doesn't bother me that much. And then we have the book I read last year, where a character was described as being immune to being tazed, because he wasn't able to feel pain. Obviously no one told the author that the reason a tazer paralyses is because it messes up the nerve impulses in the body (they are aslo electricity), not because of the pain. A major part of the plot hinged around this guy ignoring a tazer, so that bothered me a lot more.

12-09-2011, 06:20 PM	#14
RainingLemur Spork Connoisseur Posts: 2,355 Karma: 16780603 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Nook Color	If it's little things here and there, I'm not too concerned. But, when there's some egregious errors with things (like the Spain example used in the OP) can be annoying.

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12-10-2011, 12:58 AM	#15
bbqncigars PDA dino Posts: 80 Karma: 1527072 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Palm IIIx, Rooted NC, Voyages(2)	This reminds me of my own pet peeve regarding 'clips' vs 'magazines' regarding firearms. Yes, the former is shorter and easier to spell, but it doesn't make it correct. There are few guns that are only loaded via clips, whereas the majority are designed around removable magazines. Belt fed weapons are another story.