The more I read the less I know, which one..

[mclien]

to buy..
As some sort of "GNU/Linux extremist", I'd like to avoid those "GPL-violaters".

Is there really "no" company, which makes an really GPL-conform device?
From the user piont of view I'd like to have:
-eInk / SiPix Display ~6"
-touchscreen for notes
-integrated dictionary (perfect would be: tab on the word with the sylus and the translation apears)
-most important formates: ePub, txt, pdf, (DRM seams inevitable, so: sadly yes) and very nice would be: OASIS

After all I know this is sort of "not on this planet".
Everybody is invited to proof me wrong on this :-)
(would be most happy to be proofed wrong in this..)

[charmian]

Are Amazon/Kobo/B&N/Sony really in violation of the GPL? I don't know too much about this, but it was my impression that they are obligated to release certain code, which they have, but they also use proprietary code on top of that, which they are not obligated to release.

Can you explain more about what makes a company in compliance with the GPL?

[mclien]

Oh sorry, my mistake. I try to correct it somehow (will be bit difficult as non native english speaker/writer):
As I write, I nitice that it's really difficult to explain...
OK as an example only: Pocketbook. They make a really nice device, using lots of GPL code, which I also like. But it took several month to have them release the code, which is a violation of the GPL, because they had to do this without any request, but from the very beginning. And I just don't found any company, which did it the right way from the start (exeption: OpenMoko).
Other companies are out of question for other reasons (Kindle, Sony..), some because of the hardware specification (TFT Screen etc.)
So I was a bit unspecific.
And to me it's somehow "unpolite" to take GPL code release that and make the divice useable only with proprietary code. It's perfectly legal, of course, but not very gentle..
Most of the things are perfectly subjective, I know.

I appologize, if this makes it more unclear, but I didn't get it better..

[jocampo]

mclien,


Welcome to mobileread.

May I ask you why that bothers you so much? I mean, I actually support Linux and Open Source software (was really sad when Oracle bought MySQL) but on real world or in terms of practicality, I don't see how that can affect your reading experience.

Sorry if I did not understand your post or initial concern.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by jocampo

May I ask you why that bothers you so much? I mean, I actually support Linux and Open Source software (was really sad when Oracle bought MySQL) but on real world or in terms of practicality, I don't see how that can affect your reading experience.

If I am not mistaken, he is, effectively, asking for the best device to run OpenInkpot on.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by jocampo

mclien,


Welcome to mobileread.

May I ask you why that bothers you so much? I mean, I actually support Linux and Open Source software (was really sad when Oracle bought MySQL) but on real world or in terms of practicality, I don't see how that can affect your reading experience.

Sorry if I did not understand your post or initial concern.

There are, of course, practical limitations. And as far as I can tell, he just wants to get as close to that as possible. The OP even says he recognizes that such a device may not exist at this time.

Nobody goes dedicatedly open source because it "affects their experience." At least, not if they're doing it SPECIFICALLY to support open source. They do it because it's a tenant of their ethics. In fact, they frequently sacrifice the user experience in order to support their ethics, with the hope (and it's a valid and confirmed hope) that their input will improve it, and their support will help it grow.

I know I have. I toughed it out with Linux Mint for months in its early (and buggy) days. And guess what? Now it's one of the most popular Linux distro's, and the user experience is wonderful. In fact, it is consistently rated THE BEST user-friendly Linux. It's because of people who stuck it out, stuck with their ethics, offered constant feedback, or even did some work for the distro itself.

Why do people act like it's bizarre to look for a product consistent with ones ethics? Why do people constantly question that as though it's invalid? If you don't care about the way companies act, then fine. But to insinuate that it's somehow ridiculous for someone to care about that is a little strange to me.

I got these same sorts of questions on my post in this subforum, also looking for an open source reader. I didn't fully understand how open source concepts can/do apply specifically to ereaders, and like the OP, the perfect product for me probably doesn't exist right now, and I knew that going in. I just wanted to know what the closest matches would be.

People insisted on telling me it's a stupid thing to care about and my criteria don't matter and on and on.

And yet these same people gripe about DRM and format incompatibility and dropped support for the locked books and bolted-down e-readers. Whose fault is it that companies who do that kind of stuff continue to exist? It's yours - the consumer. You're the one buying their products. You're the one floating their behavior.

It's ironic that the people who buy Kindles and Sony's whine about their unethical behavior, knowing full well that these companies don't care that much about user input, and as long as you continue to buy their products they have no motivation to change.

The OP has no obligation to validate or explain his ethics to you. It's not your job to judge whether or not they matter. Just stick to the criteria he wants and give him the best answer you can. If there's nothing that's a perfect match, what's the next best thing?

In 7 pages of posts, almost no one did that for me. I had to do it on my own, because a couple people in particular were convinced that supporting ones ethics with ones purchases is stupid.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by mclien

to buy..
As some sort of "GNU/Linux extremist", I'd like to avoid those "GPL-violaters".

PocketBook did comply eventually and they were explaining that they needed to clean up and prepare the code. They are not saints, but they keep the SPIRIT of GPL better than other manufacturers.

They are the closest to the heart of Linux extremists of all the companies.
- They did publish sourcecodes in MEANINGFUL way, that is: there are third-party versions of FBReader installable without hacking (created as a direct result of published source, with fantastic improvements), there is SDK available, CoolReader has been ported to PocketBook.
- the system is open to hacker/coder, you can install several third-party applications, you can replace any binary, just by putting it into /system/bin directory on an user-accessible partition (obviously this path is in $PATH before the path with built-in binaries), you can override any configuration file (even those normally in internal memory, see previous $PATH comment)
- (for older devices, such as PB360 at least, I think that there is version for newer devices as well) there is even Terminal Emulator, so you can execute actual Linux commands on machine (a typical BusyBox system). This way I have extracted several interesting files, like translation files.
- this is THE most configurable machine (with possible exception of Nook Simple Touch (that runs on Android)) of all e-ink readers. You can install screensavers, fonts, binaries, dictionaries (tool for building dictionary is available), themes (tool is available as well, theme can change even functionality of device), you can redefine function of ANY hardware button, you can make your own translation of HW ...
- All of the above without the need to break into the device, without the need to hack or jailbreak.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

It's ironic that the people who buy Kindles and Sony's whine about their unethical behavior, knowing full well that these companies don't care that much about user input, and as long as you continue to buy their products they have no motivation to change.

Uhm, the list of companies that make "OSS-friendly" embedded platforms is not very long. Currently, ASUS is high on my list of interesting vendors; for how long, remains to be seen. Once upon a time, I had hopes that Sony will see the light, and those hopes were based on PS support for other OS's. I chose my reader with high hopes that OpenInkpot will end up running on that device. I was wrong, QED.

I don't "whine" about Sony practices. They are free to do whatever they please, as long as it is legal. I reserve right to warn others against repeating my mistakes, though.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by Ankh

Uhm, the list of companies that make "OSS-friendly" embedded platforms is not very long. Currently, ASUS is high on my list of interesting vendors; for how long, remains to be seen. Once upon a time, I had hopes that Sony will see the light, and those hopes were based on PS support for other OS's. I chose my reader with high hopes that OpenInkpot will end up running on that device. I was wrong, QED.

I don't "whine" about Sony practices. They are free to do whatever they please, as long as it is legal. I reserve right to warn others against repeating my mistakes, though.

Like I said, I recognize that there are currently limitations in the ereader market. I should have been more specific - people who buy those devices, complain, and then chastise people for looking for open-source alternatives are the ones I find ironic. I do get that there is currently no widely available/well-liked ereader that is truly open source (although there are many that are a hell of a lot better than some of the big names).

[mclien]

OK Thanks go to:
1.place: SomkeandMirrors
-for getting it to the point, which I couldn't.
2.Place: kacir
- for giving me an "status report" of the Pocketbooks, which I wasn't able to find elsewhere. (perhaps my fault, but only found the post, which end open:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=114605 And that one is really annoing as starter :-) )
3. Place Ankh (are wou living in Ankh Morpork or on the Ankh?), for being with me about sony.

I think PocketBook wins so far.

Would be nice to see PocketBook, OpenInkpot and ..? (maybe jinke) putting their resorces together in software efforts

@SmokeandMirrors:
Perhaps those poeple, who don't understand me/you/us need a better metaphor.
Something like this: There was a vegetarian, who was one because he didn't want other beings killed, just to be food to him. But eats every day at the Steakhouse, because it was much closer to his home, than the greengrocer.

Thanks to everyone.

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Originally Posted by mclien

OK Thanks go to:
1.place: SomkeandMirrors
-for getting it to the point, which I couldn't.
2.Place: kacir
- for giving me an "status report" of the Pocketbooks, which I wasn't able to find elsewhere. (perhaps my fault, but only found the post, which end open:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=114605 And that one is really annoing as starter :-) )
3. Place Ankh (are wou living in Ankh Morpork or on the Ankh?), for being with me about sony.

I think PocketBook wins so far.

Would be nice to see PocketBook, OpenInkpot and ..? (maybe jinke) putting their resorces together in software efforts

@SmokeandMirrors:
Perhaps those poeple, who don't understand me/you/us need a better metaphor.
Something like this: There was a vegetarian, who was one because he didn't want other beings killed, just to be food to him. But eats every day at the Steakhouse, because it was much closer to his home, than the greengrocer.

Thanks to everyone.

No problem. And I think your metaphor is a very good one. I just find it so frustrating that people who complain about the same problems that we are will then turn around and give their money to companies who perpetuate it and say we're being ridiculous for trying to actually DO something about it.

I've been looking intently at the Pocketbook series as well.

[mclien]

Thinking about it a bit, I have a variant of the metaphor.

"Yeah, I would like to be a vegetarian, because of the ppor animals, but McDonalds is only 1 mile away, while the groceris is 3 miles, and I have to cook myself."
(ignoring, of course who much fun cooking is. Especially when cooking together with friends and like minded people).

so long
Perhaps in the future we get a eBookreader without a system (way cheaper than with) and install our favorite loavor Distribution on it.
Which was a ridiculous thought about PCs in the 90th ;-)

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by kacir

PocketBook did comply eventually and they were explaining that they needed to clean up and prepare the code. They are not saints, but they keep the SPIRIT of GPL better than other manufacturers.

They are the closest to the heart of Linux extremists of all the companies.
- They did publish sourcecodes in MEANINGFUL way, that is: there are third-party versions of FBReader installable without hacking (created as a direct result of published source, with fantastic improvements), there is SDK available, CoolReader has been ported to PocketBook.
- the system is open to hacker/coder, you can install several third-party applications, you can replace any binary, just by putting it into /system/bin directory on an user-accessible partition (obviously this path is in $PATH before the path with built-in binaries), you can override any configuration file (even those normally in internal memory, see previous $PATH comment)
- (for older devices, such as PB360 at least, I think that there is version for newer devices as well) there is even Terminal Emulator, so you can execute actual Linux commands on machine (a typical BusyBox system). This way I have extracted several interesting files, like translation files.
- this is THE most configurable machine (with possible exception of Nook Simple Touch (that runs on Android)) of all e-ink readers. You can install screensavers, fonts, binaries, dictionaries (tool for building dictionary is available), themes (tool is available as well, theme can change even functionality of device), you can redefine function of ANY hardware button, you can make your own translation of HW ...
- All of the above without the need to break into the device, without the need to hack or jailbreak.

They must be under NDA or something, I have no idea why they would go through all this pain (SDK, access to shell, this, that) otherwise.

Just open-sourcing the drivers is all that is needed. You want to flash your eReader to turn it into a, say, dedicated Sudoku machine? Fine. Why would Pocketbook care?

I just don't get it.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

The OP has no obligation to validate or explain his ethics to you. It's not your job to judge whether or not they matter. Just stick to the criteria he wants and give him the best answer you can. If there's nothing that's a perfect match, what's the next best thing?

What kind of comment is that?

No one is judging the OP. I asked the "why" because in real life is actual not so practical go purist and install open source programs only. I don't really care if he does.

I am not complaining about open source either. All my computers at home use Ubuntu Linux, better and much popular than Mint. I use Microsoft Windows at work, and my main machine is Apple. I don't stick to any brand of Os. I use whatever is good or fulfill my needs. And I am very good using each of them, except Mac, which I just started learning recently.

I gave the best answer I can and actually, replied to a post trying to help.

If you don't have anything useful to add to the conversation, don't reply at all, or don't quote me with nothing else than personal attacks. As a matter of fact, instead of insulting others or taking comments out of context, like you did, stick to the topic and help the OP directly instead, that's more useful.

You don't know me! And you have no idea whatsoever what my computer preferences are or what I do for living. So better for you to avoid assumptions or create story tales from things that are just not true and reside on your mind.

Read my post (or learn how to read) I was being polite and trying to help.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

Why do people act like it's bizarre to look for a product consistent with ones ethics? Why do people constantly question that as though it's invalid? If you don't care about the way companies act, then fine. But to insinuate that it's somehow ridiculous for someone to care about that is a little strange to me.

It's not strange to look for a product consistent with one's ethics...but it can be hard to understand exactly what the parameters of someone's ethics are. Particularly when there is nothing that will comport exactly with their ethics and they will have to compromise them.

People insisted on telling me it's a stupid thing to care about and my criteria don't matter and on and on.

I read the previous thread and I saw no one doing that. I did see a lot of people trying to help you based on the evolving criteria you gave, however. I don't think it's very nice to criticize people who were genuinely trying to help.

And yet these same people gripe about DRM and format incompatibility and dropped support for the locked books and bolted-down e-readers. Whose fault is it that companies who do that kind of stuff continue to exist? It's yours - the consumer. You're the one buying their products. You're the one floating their behavior.

These same people? Where?

It's ironic that the people who buy Kindles and Sony's whine about their unethical behavior, knowing full well that these companies don't care that much about user input, and as long as you continue to buy their products they have no motivation to change.

A lot of people don't believe that these companies are particularly unethical. They may be according to the tenets of your religion, of course. But you can't expect everyone to have the same beliefs.

The OP has no obligation to validate or explain his ethics to you. It's not your job to judge whether or not they matter. Just stick to the criteria he wants and give him the best answer you can. If there's nothing that's a perfect match, what's the next best thing?

It's helpful to understand what's important to the OP to understand what kind of reader he might want, since there isn't one that does everything he wants.

In 7 pages of posts, almost no one did that for me. I had to do it on my own, because a couple people in particular were convinced that supporting ones ethics with ones purchases is stupid.

Arrogant much? Your thread was full of people trying to help you choose a reader based on criteria that kept changing. The reason the thread went on for 7 pages was because people were trying to figure out what you wanted. Including you.