Adjusting TOC level indents

[eggheadbooks1]

When converting to mobi from InDesign using the Kindle plug-in, I get a nicely laid out TOC with subtle indents between levels. But when I use Calibre, I get these extreme indents that look awful. (See attached screen shots.) Is there a way to format the indents in Calibre?

[user_none]

Left margin handling in the Kindle is not very fine grained. My guess is InDesign is using blank characters to fake a margin while calibre is adding a full margin based indent.

Is it possible for you to post a sample (just the TOC page) of the book you're working on?

[eggheadbooks1]

Originally Posted by user_none

Left margin handling in the Kindle is not very fine grained. My guess is InDesign is using blank characters to fake a margin while calibre is adding a full margin based indent.

Is it possible for you to post a sample (just the TOC page) of the book you're working on?

Since the TOC is built using headers, I made a doc with only the TOC and headers in it (if you erase the headers, the TOC goes with it). Attached are three files:
1. InDesign Export to Kindle mobi (note there is only a metadata TOC as InDesign discards the text TOC upon export).

2. Word to HTML to Calibre mobi. In this case there are two TOCs, the text and the metadata one. I did two tests, one where I didn't add a TOC in Word; I exported the HTML and used Calibre to force a TOC build based on the headers; and a second where I didn't force a build but indicated TOC level path expressions. Results were the same.

3. This third file is Word to HTML to Calibre. In this case I did not force a build or define TOC level expressions, to see if Calibre would auto-detect the TOC structure from the HTML. It did not: you can see the metadata TOC is flat.

Thanks for your help.
Michelle

[JSWolf]

I think what was meant was to post the working files, not the finished files.

[eggheadbooks1]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I think what was meant was to post the working files, not the finished files.

The system will not allow me to upload the InDesign file nor the HTML files. So here are the two Word doc files.

Michelle

[user_none]

Looking at the InDesign and calibre MOBI files I see why they're displaying differently. The InDesign file is using a series of   before the entries in order to have them indented. The   entity create a hard space that is not collapsable. calibre is using a series of nested blockquotes. Since, MOBI not having very robust margin support calibre fakes the left margin using blockquotes. The amount of indentation is not adjustable (aside form adding more by nesting).

Both ways have disadvantages. Blockquotes as you see have a large indent.   is not going to have an indented left margin if the text wraps onto the next line. Unfortunately, I don't know how one would prepare an input document (if it's possible) to not put the TOC into blockquotes.

[eggheadbooks1]

Originally Posted by user_none

Looking at the InDesign and calibre MOBI files I see why they're displaying differently. The InDesign file is using a series of   before the entries in order to have them indented. The   entity create a hard space that is not collapsable. calibre is using a series of nested blockquotes. Since, MOBI not having very robust margin support calibre fakes the left margin using blockquotes. The amount of indentation is not adjustable (aside form adding more by nesting).

Both ways have disadvantages. Blockquotes as you see have a large indent.   is not going to have an indented left margin if the text wraps onto the next line. Unfortunately, I don't know how one would prepare an input document (if it's possible) to not put the TOC into blockquotes.

Hi User:
I have noticed that in my InDesign-generated mobi TOC that the text wraps around and flushes left, which looks messy.

Why must blockquotes have such a large indent? Is this not programmer-dependent? Is this something that Calibre can change for future versions or is this some universal HTML thing where it isn't adjustable? If the former, as a user I would suggest the current aesthetics of the blockquotes are not pleasing.

One other thing I think needs to be addressed is the automatic removal of duplicate header entries. I noticed that when Calibre builds the TOC using the forced entries option, it removes duplicates. This is a problem for manuals like the one I am writing where each chapter ends with "Case Study: Baby Jane" and "Useful Links." Not good at all, IMHO. I would suggest removing this feature.

Regards,
Michelle

[user_none]

Originally Posted by eggheadbooks1

Why must blockquotes have such a large indent? Is this not programmer-dependent? Is this something that Calibre can change for future versions or is this some universal HTML thing where it isn't adjustable?

Using blockquotes is a work around for limtations of the MOBI format. Margin support is very poor.

Originally Posted by eggheadbooks1

One other thing I think needs to be addressed is the automatic removal of duplicate header entries. I noticed that when Calibre builds the TOC using the forced entries option, it removes duplicates. This is a problem for manuals like the one I am writing where each chapter ends with "Case Study: Baby Jane" and "Useful Links." Not good at all, IMHO. I would suggest removing this feature.

Open a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre and request this be added as an option.

I don't deal with MOBI very much (I hate the format). I will ask someone I know to weigh in on the margin issue. They might have some ideas.

[kovidgoyal]

MOBI has no support for margins. The Kindle renders a blockquote with a margin of 1.5em. You don't like it, complain to Amazon.

[eggheadbooks1]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

MOBI has no support for margins. The Kindle renders a blockquote with a margin of 1.5em. You don't like it, complain to Amazon.

Dear Kovid:

Yes, and thank you for that rude response.

I'd been a fan up 'til now...

Michelle

[kovidgoyal]

You're most welcome

[bhoyt]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

MOBI has no support for margins. The Kindle renders a blockquote with a margin of 1.5em. You don't like it, complain to Amazon.

Is this margin limitation and fixed blockquote size still the case with Kindle 3?

[kovidgoyal]

yes .