monochrome video?

HMishkoff · 07-10-2007, 01:21 PM

I'm just learning about electronic paper, and I have a question: Are there existing e-paper products that allow the display of full-motion monochrome video?

I've read several recent announcements that claim that e-paper will be capable of displaying full-motion color video in a few years, but I haven't been able to find anything about whether full-motion monochrome video is currently available. Or perhaps nobody's working on that because video doesn't really make sense unless it's in color (?).

Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help!

NatCh · 07-10-2007, 04:01 PM

Hey, HMishkoff, welcome to MobileRead!

The problem with current e-ink and video is that its refresh time is on the order of .5~1 second, which would make video a bit ... jumpy.

The next iteration of e-ink, Vizplex, is supposed to be twice as fast, but that's still pretty slow.

It'll likely be a while before we get e-ink that is fast enough to handle video, either in mono or polychrome.

P.S. I'm going to move this to the forum for future e-ink devices, so more folks will see it.

yvanleterrible · 07-10-2007, 04:27 PM

How about the Iliad? How's the refreshing on that? With the drawing features it follows stylus movements pretty well!

NatCh · 07-10-2007, 05:12 PM

It's about the same as the Reader, and still a good deal too slow for any actual video, I'm afraid.

HMishkoff · 07-10-2007, 09:20 PM

In a press release a couple of months ago (http://www.e-ink.com/press/releases/pr101.html), E Ink said:

"The E Ink's color video prototype mentioned above is a 6-inch diagonal display with 300x400 resolution and RGBW sub-pixels and is capable of switching at up to 30 frames per second. It is expected that the video switching capability may require several years to reach the market."

Is that reasonable, or are they being optimistic? (Or does that depend on how you define "several"?)

And whatever the answer is, would be be the same for monochrome video? In other words, once the frame rate issue is resolved, is it likely to hit monochrome and color at the same time, or will monochrome video be on the market before color video?

HarryT · 07-11-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMishkoff

And whatever the answer is, would be be the same for monochrome video? In other words, once the frame rate issue is resolved, is it likely to hit monochrome and color at the same time, or will monochrome video be on the market before color video?

My gut feeling is that the refresh rate issue would be independent of whether the screen is mono or colour. Colour is, after all, "merely" a matter of having three sets of "pixels" to display red, green, blue.

hoodaman · 07-19-2007, 03:01 PM

Isn't part of the allure of E-ink tech. the fact that it has exceptional battery life in most cases since it only uses battery on page turns? Wouldn't playing video pretty much kill said battery life? I'm thinking yes and I'm also thinking if so, it would be better to use a different device that's more suitable for such a feat, preferrably something with a color screen...

HarryT · 07-20-2007, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodaman

Isn't part of the allure of E-ink tech. the fact that it has exceptional battery life in most cases since it only uses battery on page turns? Wouldn't playing video pretty much kill said battery life? I'm thinking yes and I'm also thinking if so, it would be better to use a different device that's more suitable for such a feat, preferrably something with a color screen...

Correct. If you want video, might as well stick with LCD screens.

citius · 07-26-2007, 05:01 PM

Well, I'd like to differ: eInk's *other* allure is to provide an easier surface to look at. Think of...Harry Potter's moving (animated!) pictures. Transmissive LCD screens, while looking pretty dang good - does hurt your eyes after a while...

Dylrob · 08-01-2007, 07:17 PM

Another potential advantage would be flexibility. You could have a multipurpose device that played movies, but also benefited from the enhanced battery life while used for low-refresh applications.

kovidgoyal · 08-01-2007, 07:22 PM

There's no fundamental reason why you can't have persistent pixels (for long battery life) *and* a fast enough refresh rate for video, the technology just has to mature.

yvanleterrible · 08-01-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

There's no fundamental reason why you can't have persistent pixels (for long battery life) *and* a fast enough refresh rate for video, the technology just has to mature.

If I understand correctly, it's not the eink display but the computing aspect that is not yet advanced enough for video?

kovidgoyal · 08-01-2007, 07:46 PM

not really unless you want to play highly compressed video streams

citius · 08-03-2007, 01:33 AM

Incorrect. The limitation in the update is the speed at which you can get the color spheres to change position - something that's innately linked to the design of the capacitor, not the controller that drives the LCD.

kovidgoyal · 08-03-2007, 12:15 PM

I thought it was determined by the viscosity of the fluid in the spheres. It's a tradeoff between persistence and refresh speed.

07-10-2007, 01:21 PM	#1
HMishkoff Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Device: abcdefg	monochrome video? I'm just learning about electronic paper, and I have a question: Are there existing e-paper products that allow the display of full-motion monochrome video? I've read several recent announcements that claim that e-paper will be capable of displaying full-motion color video in a few years, but I haven't been able to find anything about whether full-motion monochrome video is currently available. Or perhaps nobody's working on that because video doesn't really make sense unless it's in color (?). Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help!

07-19-2007, 03:01 PM	#7
hoodaman the new guy Posts: 20 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Central Alabama in a little town called Slapout Device: PRS-505	Isn't part of the allure of E-ink tech. the fact that it has exceptional battery life in most cases since it only uses battery on page turns? Wouldn't playing video pretty much kill said battery life? I'm thinking yes and I'm also thinking if so, it would be better to use a different device that's more suitable for such a feat, preferrably something with a color screen... Last edited by hoodaman; 07-19-2007 at 03:01 PM. Reason: misspelling

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07-10-2007, 04:01 PM	#2
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Hey, HMishkoff, welcome to MobileRead! The problem with current e-ink and video is that its refresh time is on the order of .5~1 second, which would make video a bit ... jumpy. The next iteration of e-ink, Vizplex, is supposed to be twice as fast, but that's still pretty slow. It'll likely be a while before we get e-ink that is fast enough to handle video, either in mono or polychrome. P.S. I'm going to move this to the forum for future e-ink devices, so more folks will see it.

07-10-2007, 04:27 PM	#3
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	How about the Iliad? How's the refreshing on that? With the drawing features it follows stylus movements pretty well!

07-10-2007, 05:12 PM	#4
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	It's about the same as the Reader, and still a good deal too slow for any actual video, I'm afraid.

07-10-2007, 09:20 PM	#5
HMishkoff Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Device: abcdefg	In a press release a couple of months ago (http://www.e-ink.com/press/releases/pr101.html), E Ink said: "The E Ink's color video prototype mentioned above is a 6-inch diagonal display with 300x400 resolution and RGBW sub-pixels and is capable of switching at up to 30 frames per second. It is expected that the video switching capability may require several years to reach the market." Is that reasonable, or are they being optimistic? (Or does that depend on how you define "several"?) And whatever the answer is, would be be the same for monochrome video? In other words, once the frame rate issue is resolved, is it likely to hit monochrome and color at the same time, or will monochrome video be on the market before color video?

07-26-2007, 05:01 PM	#9
citius Member Posts: 16 Karma: 54 Join Date: Jul 2007 Device: None	Well, I'd like to differ: eInk's other allure is to provide an easier surface to look at. Think of...Harry Potter's moving (animated!) pictures. Transmissive LCD screens, while looking pretty dang good - does hurt your eyes after a while...

08-01-2007, 07:17 PM	#10
Dylrob Murderous Mustela Posts: 10,234 Karma: 48000000 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The other land of schnitzel and beer Device: iPad M1 Pro, Kindle Paperwhite	Another potential advantage would be flexibility. You could have a multipurpose device that played movies, but also benefited from the enhanced battery life while used for low-refresh applications.

08-01-2007, 07:22 PM	#11
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,337 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	There's no fundamental reason why you can't have persistent pixels (for long battery life) and a fast enough refresh rate for video, the technology just has to mature.

08-01-2007, 07:46 PM	#13
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,337 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	not really unless you want to play highly compressed video streams

08-03-2007, 01:33 AM	#14
citius Member Posts: 16 Karma: 54 Join Date: Jul 2007 Device: None	Incorrect. The limitation in the update is the speed at which you can get the color spheres to change position - something that's innately linked to the design of the capacitor, not the controller that drives the LCD.

08-03-2007, 12:15 PM	#15
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,337 Karma: 27182818 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	I thought it was determined by the viscosity of the fluid in the spheres. It's a tradeoff between persistence and refresh speed.

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