A National Post article about E-books

barth90 · 03-13-2011, 05:45 PM

It looks like old habits die hard....

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Pri...309/story.html

GA Russell · 03-13-2011, 07:45 PM

Thanks for the link, barth!

This seems to be more about the author's dislike of change rather than an intelligent discussion of eBooks.

cfrizz · 03-13-2011, 08:49 PM

Precisely, just another old fart that doesn't want to deal with the fact that they live in a world that is constantly changing. So go stick your useless head in a pile of sand and stay out of conversations where you can't/won't contribute anything useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Thanks for the link, barth!

This seems to be more about the author's dislike of change rather than an intelligent discussion of eBooks.

wigm · 03-13-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Thanks for the link, barth!

This seems to be more about the author's dislike of change rather than an intelligent discussion of eBooks.

Agree with you.

Noticed lots of "I read" "I feel" "I know" "I do " "I don't" "I take" " I am" "I speak" "I realize" "I can"... I give up, too many personal opinions.

SensualPoet · 03-13-2011, 08:54 PM

Perhaps 38 y/o Mireille Silcoff aspires to become a French Canadian Andy Rooney.

snipenekkid · 03-13-2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Precisely, just another old fart that doesn't want to deal with the fact that they live in a world that is constantly changing. So go stick your useless head in a pile of sand and stay out of conversations where you can't/won't contribute anything useful.

cfrizz,

so how do ya reallly feel?

I would add there might be kinder words to express it though.

ficbot · 03-13-2011, 10:21 PM

I honestly don't know what to say anymore to people like this. I really have difficulty with the idea that this has to be an either/or scenario. My dad never thought he would like an ebook reader. He still has all his paper books. But he also has a Kobo and has been enjoying re-reading classics from his childhood. Where is the harm? I like my cookbooks and decorating books in paper, but I have 1500 novels in ebook, and I would not have the space to store that many in paper. So having that e-collection gives me joy. Again, where is the harm?

As for the 'I don't know anybody' argument, it could apply to anything, so...so what? I mean, in MY demographic, we are all young, urban folks without a lot of money, so nobody buys cars. I don't know a single person who has bought a car in the last five years. Does that mean I fail to understand why there is a market for them? Does that mean I think there should NOT be a market? Of course not. Other people (not me) buy them, and best of luck to them. Why should I care?

snipenekkid · 03-13-2011, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

I honestly don't know what to say anymore to people like this. I really have difficulty with the idea that this has to be an either/or scenario. My dad never thought he would like an ebook reader. He still has all his paper books. But he also has a Kobo and has been enjoying re-reading classics from his childhood. Where is the harm? I like my cookbooks and decorating books in paper, but I have 1500 novels in ebook, and I would not have the space to store that many in paper. So having that e-collection gives me joy. Again, where is the harm?

As for the 'I don't know anybody' argument, it could apply to anything, so...so what? I mean, in MY demographic, we are all young, urban folks without a lot of money, so nobody buys cars. I don't know a single person who has bought a car in the last five years. Does that mean I fail to understand why there is a market for them? Does that mean I think there should NOT be a market? Of course not. Other people (not me) buy them, and best of luck to them. Why should I care?

wait for the fun of hitting your 50s and you'll suddenly realize the value of driving that 14yr old pickup which still looks and drives like new. Especially when you look at the $20k sticker price on anything new and comparable to what you have. Sure I might get 3-4MPG better, maybe, but for the difference even at today's fuel prices. Then after adding in insurance, increased licensing and what not, it's cheaper-to-keep-her so to speak, smarter too. So don't feel like you all are missing out on anything special because eventually you'll love the idea of driving that old car. I know I sure do.

wyndslash · 03-13-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

I honestly don't know what to say anymore to people like this. I really have difficulty with the idea that this has to be an either/or scenario. My dad never thought he would like an ebook reader. He still has all his paper books. But he also has a Kobo and has been enjoying re-reading classics from his childhood. Where is the harm? I like my cookbooks and decorating books in paper, but I have 1500 novels in ebook, and I would not have the space to store that many in paper. So having that e-collection gives me joy. Again, where is the harm?

As for the 'I don't know anybody' argument, it could apply to anything, so...so what? I mean, in MY demographic, we are all young, urban folks without a lot of money, so nobody buys cars. I don't know a single person who has bought a car in the last five years. Does that mean I fail to understand why there is a market for them? Does that mean I think there should NOT be a market? Of course not. Other people (not me) buy them, and best of luck to them. Why should I care?

the lack of compromise is overwhelming.

SlowRain · 03-13-2011, 11:20 PM

Don't fret. It's just the National Post.

Worldwalker · 03-13-2011, 11:24 PM

I'm one of the people with a car that is, well, older than some MobileRead members. And every time I realize that for what someone who buys a new car is paying in car payments and insurance I could buy a car like mine every two or three months, I just smile and think of how many extra books I can buy with the money I'm saving.

Cars do make a good parallel. Some people absolutely have to have a new car because it's new. 2011 model year, that's gonna be outdated soon, gotta be the first on the lot for the 2012s. Then there are the people who have a car that works, and still does the job they bought it to do, so they feel no compulsion to get rid of it and buy a different one. Sure, there's a newer car ... there's always a newer car ... even if you buy one brand-new, the one you didn't drive off the lot is newer than the one you did. But if the one you have does what you bought it to do, isn't it more productive to allocate your resources to getting something you need but don't have yet than to getting a different version of something you already have?

The big thing I see in these rants is a lack of tolerance for other people's opinions. One the one hand you have people saying "I don't see a reason to buy an ebook reader, so nobody else needs one either" and on the other, "ebook readers are new so everybody should embrace them." I wonder if some of those people think everybody should love broccoli because they do, and the others think everybody should hate broccoli because they do? Because, really, that's what it comes down to. Some people like hardcovers. Some like trade paperbacks. Some like mass-market paperbacks. I don't see any of them proclaiming their superiority based on the format they want their pbooks in, so why do they do so depending on whether they like their books p- or e-? And we're not immune to it, either. Sure, by nature we're early adopters ... most people still don't have ebook readers. But we're not saying "everyone should love that green cauliflower stuff because it's new" so why should we be proclaiming the same of ebook readers? Why aren't we all doing molecular gastronomy and eating strange food prepared in even stranger ways instead of peanut butter sandwiches? It's newer, after all, and definitely high-tech, so isn't it by definition better?

Of course I think ebook readers rock. I have one, after all, and I'm here on MobileRead. But I don't think everyone is obligated to agree with me, any more than they are about my fondness for fountain pens (I like the way they feel), or my elderly car (saves money for more books and the occasional fountain pen), or my electronic remote weather station (I'm aware I could just step out back and look up). Ebooks are a format I like my books in, and one I prefer, just like hardcover is my least-preferred format. Other people have different tastes. I'm not about to tell them they're wrong, and they have to do it my way.

That's what the author of this article is missing: he's equating everyone's opinions to his own, and declaring that everyone who disagrees with him either isn't as smart as he is, or is being deliberately wrong. And that's what some of the responses are missing, too: they're doing the exact same thing as the author of the article. They're both wrong. Neither clinging unquestioningly to the old nor racing blindly in pursuit of the new is progress; they're both the same kind of failure, judging things on their age and familiarity instead of their utility. That's the part they don't get. We shouldn't be as foolish.

ATDrake · 03-13-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

That's what the author of this article is missing: he's equating everyone's opinions to his own, and declaring that everyone who disagrees with him either isn't as smart as he is, or is being deliberately wrong. And that's what some of the responses are missing, too: they're doing the exact same thing as the author of the article. They're both wrong.

You make many good, if lengthy, points but the real point, as SlowRain mentioned above, is that this is The National Post.

For the non-Canadians in the audience, it's pretty much the equivalent of, well, not The Torygraph Telegraph exactly, since they've generally fairly decent reporting so their nearest equivalent is probably The Globe & Mail, but rather the Murdoch-owned Times with perhaps a little touch of The Daily Fail Mail when it comes to the people who leave comments on the articles.

Basically, the entire paper exists to be a kind of reactionary stick-in-the-mud I'm-right-and-you're-wrong why-can't-we-go-back-to-the-good-old-days opinion-feeding mouthpiece for the Asper brothers, or whoever owns it now that Conrad Black is in jail.

GA Russell · 03-14-2011, 12:03 AM

I don't see a comments section. Are there comments to this article?

ATDrake · 03-14-2011, 12:17 AM

No comments to the original article. NP only allows them on select stories anyway, mostly their politically-slanted editorial opinions-disguised-as-reportage and this doesn't qualify.

I think Worldwalker is referring to poster responses to this article, some of which he seems to find as summarily reactionary and dismissive as the original, only in the other direction. Unless that was a semi-rant against rants in general.

cfrizz · 03-14-2011, 06:34 AM

Yeah, I know. It's an automatic kneejerk reaction I get to people like that. It comes from working for 29 years around people who bitched & moaned when we switched over to pc's, then bitched & moaned everytime we got an upgrade to the software, application, laptops, etc, etc. etc. Or worse always came to ME to do the same process over & over again because THEY didn't want to learn it!

In the end I just wanted them to shut up & retire, because their complaining & using me to do their jobs got old real fast.

It took me having a couple of meltdowns before they got a clue and left me alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

cfrizz,

so how do ya reallly feel?

I would add there might be kinder words to express it though.

03-13-2011, 05:45 PM	#1
barth90 Enthusiast Posts: 45 Karma: 34336 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Kindle DX , Paperwhite, Onyx Note Pro	A National Post article about E-books It looks like old habits die hard.... http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Pri...309/story.html

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03-13-2011, 07:45 PM	#2
GA Russell New season! Posts: 7,683 Karma: 31487351 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	Thanks for the link, barth! This seems to be more about the author's dislike of change rather than an intelligent discussion of eBooks.

03-13-2011, 08:54 PM	#5
SensualPoet Wizard Posts: 2,302 Karma: 2607151 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo	Perhaps 38 y/o Mireille Silcoff aspires to become a French Canadian Andy Rooney.

03-13-2011, 10:21 PM	#7
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	I honestly don't know what to say anymore to people like this. I really have difficulty with the idea that this has to be an either/or scenario. My dad never thought he would like an ebook reader. He still has all his paper books. But he also has a Kobo and has been enjoying re-reading classics from his childhood. Where is the harm? I like my cookbooks and decorating books in paper, but I have 1500 novels in ebook, and I would not have the space to store that many in paper. So having that e-collection gives me joy. Again, where is the harm? As for the 'I don't know anybody' argument, it could apply to anything, so...so what? I mean, in MY demographic, we are all young, urban folks without a lot of money, so nobody buys cars. I don't know a single person who has bought a car in the last five years. Does that mean I fail to understand why there is a market for them? Does that mean I think there should NOT be a market? Of course not. Other people (not me) buy them, and best of luck to them. Why should I care?

03-13-2011, 11:20 PM	#10
SlowRain Addict Posts: 311 Karma: 9553 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: a Canadian expat in Taiwan Device: HTC 10, Asus Phonepad	Don't fret. It's just the National Post.

03-13-2011, 11:24 PM	#11
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	I'm one of the people with a car that is, well, older than some MobileRead members. And every time I realize that for what someone who buys a new car is paying in car payments and insurance I could buy a car like mine every two or three months, I just smile and think of how many extra books I can buy with the money I'm saving. Cars do make a good parallel. Some people absolutely have to have a new car because it's new. 2011 model year, that's gonna be outdated soon, gotta be the first on the lot for the 2012s. Then there are the people who have a car that works, and still does the job they bought it to do, so they feel no compulsion to get rid of it and buy a different one. Sure, there's a newer car ... there's always a newer car ... even if you buy one brand-new, the one you didn't drive off the lot is newer than the one you did. But if the one you have does what you bought it to do, isn't it more productive to allocate your resources to getting something you need but don't have yet than to getting a different version of something you already have? The big thing I see in these rants is a lack of tolerance for other people's opinions. One the one hand you have people saying "I don't see a reason to buy an ebook reader, so nobody else needs one either" and on the other, "ebook readers are new so everybody should embrace them." I wonder if some of those people think everybody should love broccoli because they do, and the others think everybody should hate broccoli because they do? Because, really, that's what it comes down to. Some people like hardcovers. Some like trade paperbacks. Some like mass-market paperbacks. I don't see any of them proclaiming their superiority based on the format they want their pbooks in, so why do they do so depending on whether they like their books p- or e-? And we're not immune to it, either. Sure, by nature we're early adopters ... most people still don't have ebook readers. But we're not saying "everyone should love that green cauliflower stuff because it's new" so why should we be proclaiming the same of ebook readers? Why aren't we all doing molecular gastronomy and eating strange food prepared in even stranger ways instead of peanut butter sandwiches? It's newer, after all, and definitely high-tech, so isn't it by definition better? Of course I think ebook readers rock. I have one, after all, and I'm here on MobileRead. But I don't think everyone is obligated to agree with me, any more than they are about my fondness for fountain pens (I like the way they feel), or my elderly car (saves money for more books and the occasional fountain pen), or my electronic remote weather station (I'm aware I could just step out back and look up). Ebooks are a format I like my books in, and one I prefer, just like hardcover is my least-preferred format. Other people have different tastes. I'm not about to tell them they're wrong, and they have to do it my way. That's what the author of this article is missing: he's equating everyone's opinions to his own, and declaring that everyone who disagrees with him either isn't as smart as he is, or is being deliberately wrong. And that's what some of the responses are missing, too: they're doing the exact same thing as the author of the article. They're both wrong. Neither clinging unquestioningly to the old nor racing blindly in pursuit of the new is progress; they're both the same kind of failure, judging things on their age and familiarity instead of their utility. That's the part they don't get. We shouldn't be as foolish.

03-14-2011, 12:03 AM	#13
GA Russell New season! Posts: 7,683 Karma: 31487351 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	I don't see a comments section. Are there comments to this article?

03-14-2011, 12:17 AM	#14
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	No comments to the original article. NP only allows them on select stories anyway, mostly their politically-slanted editorial opinions-disguised-as-reportage and this doesn't qualify. I think Worldwalker is referring to poster responses to this article, some of which he seems to find as summarily reactionary and dismissive as the original, only in the other direction. Unless that was a semi-rant against rants in general.

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