Amazon Kindle e-book downloads outsell paperbacks

GeoffC · 01-28-2011, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Amazon has announced that in the US it sold more e-books for its Kindle device than it sold paperback books in the last three months of 2010.

But its profit margins were down as it spent money on discounting, acquisitions and building new depots.

Amazon shares fell 9% in after-hours trading as its sales were not as good as had been expected.

Beanko · 01-28-2011, 07:26 AM

That's interesting. I have to wonder if Amazon's proprietary software will hurt them. It reminds me of the VHS/BetaMax war. David got Goliath in that one. I think the Christmas season brought a lot of new, less expensive e-readers out there and now there are library lending programs that you can't use on Kindle. Should get even more interesting!

Mike L · 01-28-2011, 08:23 AM

I suppose it's not all that surprising, given Amazon's dominant position on the ebook market.

If WH Smith or Waterson or Barnes & Noble announced that they were selling more ebooks than paperbacks, that we'd really sit up and take notice.

HarryT · 01-28-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanko

That's interesting. I have to wonder if Amazon's proprietary software will hurt them.

Don't forget that ADE is proprietary software too.

fantasyfan · 01-28-2011, 08:38 AM

Five years ago I wouldn't have believed this possible. Now that I have an e-reader, I can see why!

rhadin · 01-28-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Don't forget that ADE is proprietary software too.

True, Harry, but there is a difference. Amazon's books have at least 2 layers of proprietary software -- the basic format and the DRM -- so even if one were dropped the other would remain. This is compounded by Amazon's unwillingness to broadly license its proprietary software.

OTOH, ADE is but one level of proprietary software and it could be dropped without rippling the marketplace because the underlying format is not proprietary and is universally available. Every ebooktailer (at least of the major ones) other than Amazon uses it. In addition, ADE is available to anyone who wants to use it.

The fact that ADE is proprietary is somewhat meaningless under the circumstances but that Amazon's 2 layers are does have meaning.

mdmorrissey · 01-28-2011, 08:59 AM

I can't find a forum to discuss DRM/ADE, so I'll post this here. Yesterday it occurred to me that Amazon might go into the ebook lending business. If libraries can do it, why not Amazon? This could be the answer to what seems to me the impossible situation we have now of ebooks selling for absurdly high prices, especially compared to prices for used paper books. Since Amazon took on the used paper business, which at first must have scared them since it would take away from their new books market, maybe they will take on the lending business. This leads to DRM/ADE issues, which I know little about, so maybe someone can help. What in fact would stop anyone from doing their own lending business, just as they do their own selling business, either through Amazon or otherwise? Can DRM/ADE be configured to make the ebook equivalent to a paper book, i.e., not copyable except along with the DRM software that allows you access it? That would allow you to sell the book. The lending variation of software is obviously already being used by libaries, so why can't individuals use it, too? P.S. I just read the Adobe white paper here and they seem fully aware of the problems and seem to have solutions, so the idea of a huge lending library (most public libraries have very limited ebook collections, especially of newer books) does not seem far-fetched.

HarryT · 01-28-2011, 09:01 AM

I don't disagree with you, Richard. I was just pointing out that ADE is just as proprietary to Adobe as the Kindle format is to Amazon. This often seems to be overlooked. Anybody who wants to sell a reader with ADE has to pay Adobe a hefty licence fee for the right to do so; anybody who wants to sell ADE books has to pay another hefty licence for the "Adobe Content Server" software, plus (I believe) a royalty payment for every book sold.

pdurrant · 01-28-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

anybody who wants to sell ADE books has to pay another hefty licence for the "Adobe Content Server" software, plus (I believe) a royalty payment for every book sold.

Yes, $0.22 per ebook sold.

GeoffC · 01-28-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasyfan

Five years ago I wouldn't have believed this possible. Now that I have an e-reader, I can see why!

Welcome to Mobileread ....

fantasyfan · 01-28-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Welcome to Mobileread ....

Thank You!

I've looked around for a forum like this for a while and this board has so many members who really know what they are talking about and are willing to share their information and advice with others.

Kali Yuga · 01-28-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

True, Harry, but there is a difference. Amazon's books have at least 2 layers of proprietary software -- the basic format and the DRM....

Sort of. The MOBI format is open (and in common use), Topaz is not.

However, it really doesn't matter. If Amazon goes out of business and no one takes them over, lots of books will be locked. Same if Adobe ever decided to stop supporting ADE. The risks are about the same.

HarryT · 01-28-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Sort of. The MOBI format is open (and in common use), Topaz is not.

The Mobi format certainly is not "open". It's proprietary to Amazon, and the file format is not officially documented. The ePub file format, on the other file, is both an open standard, and is fully documented.

Of course, the DRM "extensions" to ePub are proprietary and undocumented.

Kali Yuga · 01-28-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmorrissey

Yesterday it occurred to me that Amazon might go into the ebook lending business. If libraries can do it, why not Amazon?

Because Amazon's managers know how to run a business.

There actually is a company that rents ebooks (and paper books), but I suspect the economics are awful. Rentals work for movies, because it takes a few hours to watch one and you may not want to own it thereafter. Books take days, weeks, occasionally months to read; people like to own them; and if you do a monthly service fee like Netflix, the people who will benefit the most (the heavy readers) will cost you the most to support.

I fully support libraries, but on a fundamental level they operate very differently from retailers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmorrissey

This could be the answer to what seems to me the impossible situation we have now of ebooks selling for absurdly high prices, especially compared to prices for used paper books.

Used is a terrible anchor price for ebooks. It's like figuring out the value of a 2011 BMW based on the book value of a 1986 Chevy.

The only problem this solves is "how will skinflints get their hands on new books?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmorrissey

What in fact would stop anyone from doing their own lending business, just as they do their own selling business, either through Amazon or otherwise?

You need licensing agreements with the publishers; start-up captial; a highly proficient team to execute the plan; and a management company that knows what it's doing. If you're going to lend, you'll also need a top-notch DRM implementation. Otherwise there is no way to enforce time periods.

leebase · 01-28-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Used is a terrible anchor price for ebooks. It's like figuring out the value of a 2011 BMW based on the book value of a 1986 Chevy.

The only problem this solves is "how will skinflints get their hands on new books?"

Brilliant! Kinda reminds me of a certain thread

Lee

01-28-2011, 08:59 AM	#7
mdmorrissey Addict Posts: 232 Karma: 262 Join Date: May 2010 Device: PocketBook 360	I can't find a forum to discuss DRM/ADE, so I'll post this here. Yesterday it occurred to me that Amazon might go into the ebook lending business. If libraries can do it, why not Amazon? This could be the answer to what seems to me the impossible situation we have now of ebooks selling for absurdly high prices, especially compared to prices for used paper books. Since Amazon took on the used paper business, which at first must have scared them since it would take away from their new books market, maybe they will take on the lending business. This leads to DRM/ADE issues, which I know little about, so maybe someone can help. What in fact would stop anyone from doing their own lending business, just as they do their own selling business, either through Amazon or otherwise? Can DRM/ADE be configured to make the ebook equivalent to a paper book, i.e., not copyable except along with the DRM software that allows you access it? That would allow you to sell the book. The lending variation of software is obviously already being used by libaries, so why can't individuals use it, too? P.S. I just read the Adobe white paper here and they seem fully aware of the problems and seem to have solutions, so the idea of a huge lending library (most public libraries have very limited ebook collections, especially of newer books) does not seem far-fetched. Last edited by mdmorrissey; 01-28-2011 at 09:21 AM.

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01-28-2011, 07:26 AM	#2
Beanko Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE Indiana, USA Device: Literati	That's interesting. I have to wonder if Amazon's proprietary software will hurt them. It reminds me of the VHS/BetaMax war. David got Goliath in that one. I think the Christmas season brought a lot of new, less expensive e-readers out there and now there are library lending programs that you can't use on Kindle. Should get even more interesting!

01-28-2011, 08:23 AM	#3
Mike L Wizard Posts: 1,479 Karma: 3846231 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Device: Kindle 3, Samsung Galaxy	I suppose it's not all that surprising, given Amazon's dominant position on the ebook market. If WH Smith or Waterson or Barnes & Noble announced that they were selling more ebooks than paperbacks, that we'd really sit up and take notice.

01-28-2011, 08:38 AM	#5
fantasyfan Wizard Posts: 1,376 Karma: 28116892 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Device: Kindle Oasis 3, iPad 9th gen. IPhone 11	Five years ago I wouldn't have believed this possible. Now that I have an e-reader, I can see why!

01-28-2011, 09:01 AM	#8
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I don't disagree with you, Richard. I was just pointing out that ADE is just as proprietary to Adobe as the Kindle format is to Amazon. This often seems to be overlooked. Anybody who wants to sell a reader with ADE has to pay Adobe a hefty licence fee for the right to do so; anybody who wants to sell ADE books has to pay another hefty licence for the "Adobe Content Server" software, plus (I believe) a royalty payment for every book sold.

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