Petition to Amazon and B&N to Be More Open

[ebookrights]

I created a petition at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/ebookrights, please sign it if you deem appropriate

[desertgrandma]

You might want to read this......

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp

[tubemonkey]

Boycotts are the most effective way to get their attention. Hit 'em where it counts most - money!

[traponk]

For what it's worth, Amazon and BN both allow publishers the option to sell non-DRM ebooks in their markets, so we also have to convince publishers that it's in their interest to publish DRM-free ebooks.

Nooks read epub, an open format that iBooks, Sony Readers, Kobe and most other ereaders use. If you can find an epub ebook, you can read it on the Nook. The DRM that Nooks use, when it is used, is from a DRM from Adobe that's pretty widely used, so it's by no means exclusive to Nooks.

Not so the Kindle. Amazon created their own format that only Kindles read, and purposely stayed out of the epub development that BN, Google & Apple are part of.

To find out lots more about DRM and related issues for ebooks, I recommend Cory Doctorow's book "Content." You can download it as a free epub ebook, or read it in html here.

[spec]

Originally Posted by traponk

For what it's worth, Amazon and BN both allow publishers the option to sell non-DRM ebooks in their markets, so we also have to convince publishers that it's in their interest to publish DRM-free ebooks.

Nooks read epub, an open format that iBooks, Sony Readers, Kobe and most other ereaders use. If you can find an epub ebook, you can read it on the Nook. The DRM that Nooks use, when it is used, is from a DRM from Adobe that's pretty widely used, so it's by no means exclusive to Nooks.

Not so the Kindle. Amazon created their own format that only Kindles read, and purposely stayed out of the epub development that BN, Google & Apple are part of.

To find out lots more about DRM and related issues for ebooks, I recommend Cory Doctorow's book "Content." You can download it as a free epub ebook, or read it in html here.

I didnt read the mentioned book (it is on my to-read list), but it seems to me that almost all of the statements above are inaccurate: B&N created their own DRM format which is an encryption based on user's name and credit card number - completely proprietary. Adobe Digital Editions has their own DRM format - Adept, which nook can also read in conjunction with ADE.

Kindle did not create their own format as far as i know. AZW format is a mobi format with DRM. Mobi was created by a French company which was purchased by Amazon (i think it was in light of news that Adobe will stop developing ADE if I remember correctly). Amazon also uses topaz format .tpz which is scans with text, i think, but that is in minority of books and I dont know much about it.

B&N, apple and google are part of epub development? That's the first time I'm hearing this kind of stuff. Generally epub standard is created and maintained by IDPF, lot of companies are part of it, but B&N apple nor google are not managing it link .

De-DRMing is against the DMCA in US, so alternative to convincing publishers is to convince lawmakers to make de-DRMing legal. There's similar acts in other countries now.

Whether to put DRM on the books or not is up to publishers not booksellers.

[traponk]

Apple & Google aren't managing IDPF, they're collaborating with them as members. Here's the list of IDPF members w/ Adobe, B&N, Apple, Google and a whole slew of others: link

You might be right that B&N may have its own DRM but they at least collaborated with Adobe in its development: link

Jeff Bezos, Amazon CEO, told USA Today the reason Kindle doesn't support epub: "We are innovating so rapidly that having our own standard allows us to incorporate new things at a very rapid rate." link. You might be right about the format, but they're using their own standards that probably go way beyond the original Mobi that, if you're right about them buying it, makes it proprietary--the opposite of open.

I agree that users should be able to strip DRM legally, though I doubt that'll happen (but really, is anyone watching for ebook pirates?)

[Kitabi]

That comment from Bezos is contradicted by Amazon's actions. If their only concern is being able to innovate rapidly enough, why not license Kindle OS and AZW/TPZ formats to other hardware makers? I am sure generic hardware manufacturers in Asia would be happy to include support for it and customers would be happy with more choices in hardware.

On the other hand, why not support ePub format - Amazon supports several other formats so why not ePub? It can continue selling in AZW if it wants.

The only thing I can conclude from the lack of either action above is that the real intention of Amazon in using a proprietary format that it does not share with others is to lock in customers. It may be good for their business but it isn't good for customers.

[traponk]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

If their only concern is being able to innovate rapidly enough, why not license Kindle OS and AZW/TPZ formats to other hardware makers? I am sure generic hardware manufacturers in Asia would be happy to include support for it and customers would be happy with more choices in hardware.

I agree, but Amazon would lose money if they let third parties get their hands on the source code (as far as I know AMZ isn't open source).

They'll let you convert other files to be read on the Kindle, you just have to email an attachment to your device and pay a couple bucks per conversion. If I had a Kindle they'd be making a killing off me from conversion alone!

[spec]

Originally Posted by traponk

You might be right about the format, but they're using their own standards that probably go way beyond the original Mobi that, if you're right about them buying it, makes it proprietary--the opposite of open.

link.

[ebookrights]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

The only thing I can conclude from the lack of either action above is that the real intention of Amazon in using a proprietary format that it does not share with others is to lock in customers. It may be good for their business but it isn't good for customers.

It's Microsoft Office all again.

[doreenjoy]

Originally Posted by traponk

For what it's worth, Amazon and BN both allow publishers the option to sell non-DRM ebooks in their markets, so we also have to convince publishers that it's in their interest to publish DRM-free ebooks.

For the record, I'm a publisher with Amazon. My company has over 1,000 titles at Amazon. We were NEVER given a choice about whether or not our titles would be DRM'd.

[ebookrights]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

For the record, I'm a publisher with Amazon. My company has over 1,000 titles at Amazon. We were NEVER given a choice about whether or not our titles would be DRM'd.

Could you elaborate? Since Amazon says otherwise on her website...?

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by ebookrights

I created a petition at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/ebookrights, please sign it if you deem appropriate

If you have a recipe to make cakes... all people love and eat your cakes... actually, millions. You have a big line in front of your house, all mornings, of people buying your delicious cake. Would you give the secret recipe to other one?


I wish! But that is not going to happen, at least not now or soon. DRM restriction sucks, but all those big companies are out there to make money, not to let you or me, buying books from anywhere.

Ironically and in a capitalist world, like USA, best thing that can or will happen is one of those huge companies will finally impose his format and business model so others will have no choice but join or stop producing ereaders. It happened with MP3, Blue Ray and even Game Consoles.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

If their only concern is being able to innovate rapidly enough, why not license Kindle OS and AZW/TPZ formats to other hardware makers?

Why license AZW if you are making money and your business model is working? Makes no sense. If you are a business owner and people are buying from your store, you want to maintain that relationship, actually, you want to nurture it.

Originally Posted by Kitabi

On the other hand, why not support ePub format - Amazon supports several other formats so why not ePub? It can continue selling in AZW if it wants.

What some people do not not know is that Kindle was 1st, then ePub; at that point in time just MOBI was the option, the best one. So they took MOBI, add encryption and search capabilities and then you have azw. Kindle was already in R&D when ePub was fully approved and well known. Supporting ePub implies a major change in business strategy which again, makes no sense if you are the #1 e-reader producer and #1 ebook seller.

Originally Posted by Kitabi

It may be good for their business but it isn't good for customers.

Actually, it is good for both! Kindle users are happy with Amazon. Most of them have years dealing with Amazon and its business model. They buy the book and read it in seconds, think about it? It looks simple, but no one had that concept before. They redesigned the way to sell books; whatever came later , Sony, Nook, Kobo, etc is a "me too" business, like Bezos says himself.

For the records: I hate DRM protection and ebook format battle. It sucks!

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by ebookrights

Could you elaborate? Since Amazon says otherwise on her website...?

Several publishers have mentioned that Amazon demands the right to DRM ebooks from publishers. There's no documentation; I suspect it's a matter of contract details where they're not allowed to reveal the specifics. Baen ebooks aren't sold at Amazon because Amazon won't let them opt out of DRM.

The right to not DRM personally-uploaded ebooks is fairly new. (They didn't always DRM them--they may never have DRM'd them--but they didn't offer a choice.) Now that the opt-out is actively allowed for self-published books, independent publishers are pressuring them for the same right.