"Position" in a book: What does it mean?

oecherprinte · 11-15-2010, 05:06 AM

Hi,

when you read a book or set a highlight, a "position" within
a book is displayed.

Does anybody know what this position is supposed to be?
(e.g. number of sentences or number of words divided by 10)

I would like to extract the toc from a book which comprises the chapter title and the position of the chapter start. If I know how the position is calculated I could extract the positions from the html source.

Thanks,

Jens

SamuraiXSendai · 11-15-2010, 05:42 AM

Here we go again... I would suggest you do a search of the forum.

patrickt · 11-15-2010, 06:10 AM

It has something to do with number of bytes or bits but I've never cared much so I haven't bothered to remember. It's the digital equivalent of page numbers in printed books. When the reader can manipulate font size, spacing, and other formatting characteristics the concept of "page" is not very useful.

desertblues · 11-15-2010, 06:30 AM

Oecherprinte:
Here's one of the threads; search under ' location'.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ight=locations

oecherprinte · 11-15-2010, 08:38 AM

Thanks for your answers. I am aware of the difference between
pages and positions and why such a differentiation is necessary.

However, let me rephrase my question:

How can I derive the kindle "positions" for a certain chapter starting from the source html? I learnt from the forum that the positions are incremented in 128 byte steps. But how does this translate into the source html code? Can you come up with an equation about how to calculate a position starting from html? Does compression also play a role?

Thanks,

Jens

sirmaru · 11-15-2010, 09:24 AM

There are no connections between Locations (Positions) in the Kindle WiFi 3 and chapter locations.

If an eBook has chapters, one can turn to the start of a chapter and get its lcoation number.

Chapters and the Table of Contents are inserted by the writer and / or publisher. Locations are added later when the book is converted from a pBook to a Kindle eBook.

emalvick · 11-15-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oecherprinte

Thanks for your answers. I am aware of the difference between
pages and positions and why such a differentiation is necessary.

However, let me rephrase my question:

How can I derive the kindle "positions" for a certain chapter starting from the source html? I learnt from the forum that the positions are incremented in 128 byte steps. But how does this translate into the source html code? Can you come up with an equation about how to calculate a position starting from html? Does compression also play a role?

Thanks,

Jens

I don't think there will be a simple equation because the underlying html code can bloat the number of locations within a book... or since you are using the source html, the location (position) is based on the actual text + the html code.

Your best bet may be to test a potential equation out, but I am not computer savvy enough to give a good suggestion on where to start other than if you know what the byte equivalent of a character is, you could start a brute force method counting the bytes and see if the locations match up appropriately when you get to a chapter break.

Bad Astronaut · 11-16-2010, 01:34 PM

This is a just a guess, but in ASCII text files each character is one byte so you may be able to just add up the characters in the html. Note that you will have to include spaces, newlines, tabs, and other special characters which may not be visible in a text viewer.

I would also guess that the calculation is based on the raw, uncompressed html (although mobi/azw containers do use compression) but you would have to test it to be sure.

Bricorn · 11-16-2010, 01:42 PM

If you need to go to a particular chapter and your ebook has no index, just search for "chapter", then pick the one you want.

bitschnau · 11-17-2010, 02:53 AM

If the book is formatted precisly by the publisher, you can skip from chapter to chapter by using the left and right buttons on the 5-way-controller.

HarryT · 11-17-2010, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Astronaut

This is a just a guess, but in ASCII text files each character is one byte so you may be able to just add up the characters in the html.

I'm afraid not. Positions count is in units of 128 bytes in the compressed file.

It's a little like asking "how can I tell, from my typewritten manuscript, which page of the printed book a given word is going to end up on?". The answer is "you can't, and why would you want to?".

HarryT · 11-17-2010, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oecherprinte

How can I derive the kindle "positions" for a certain chapter starting from the source html?

I'm afraid the only answer to that is "you can't".

oecherprinte · 11-17-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm afraid not. Positions count is in units of 128 bytes in the compressed file.

It's a little like asking "how can I tell, from my typewritten manuscript, which page of the printed book a given word is going to end up on?". The answer is "you can't, and why would you want to?".

I already gave up. Regarding your question "why would I want to":

I would like to get a list of my highlights grouped under the corresponding chapter title. So if I highlight the most important passages of a book, I can could automatically get a meaningfull summary of the book once I am done. Right now I just get an unsorted collection of highlights in the myclipping file. So my idea was to extract chapter names and positions from the mobi file and to write a small script that would to the chapter grouping using the positions stored in the myclippings file.

But I do not see a way of doing this ...

tomsem · 11-17-2010, 06:48 PM

The computation of locations reflects HTML structure as well as some notion of 'chunks'. For example <h1>...</h1> or <p>...</p> seem to generate a new location, though there may be very little text between the tags. But larger blocks of text are broken up into 2 or more locations.

This also means that two examples that render identically may wind up with different location assignments, because the underlying HTML can be different.

11-15-2010, 05:06 AM	#1
oecherprinte Zealot Posts: 115 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kindle3 3G, Kindle Paperwhite 2	"Position" in a book: What does it mean? Hi, when you read a book or set a highlight, a "position" within a book is displayed. Does anybody know what this position is supposed to be? (e.g. number of sentences or number of words divided by 10) I would like to extract the toc from a book which comprises the chapter title and the position of the chapter start. If I know how the position is calculated I could extract the positions from the html source. Thanks, Jens

11-15-2010, 06:30 AM	#4
desertblues Home for the moment Posts: 5,127 Karma: 27718936 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: travelling Device: various	Oecherprinte: Here's one of the threads; search under ' location'. https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ight=locations Last edited by desertblues; 11-15-2010 at 06:33 AM.

11-15-2010, 09:24 AM	#6
sirmaru Wizard Posts: 2,426 Karma: 6561538 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Kindle PW 2013, HDX 2013, Galaxy S5 2014	No connections There are no connections between Locations (Positions) in the Kindle WiFi 3 and chapter locations. If an eBook has chapters, one can turn to the start of a chapter and get its lcoation number. Chapters and the Table of Contents are inserted by the writer and / or publisher. Locations are added later when the book is converted from a pBook to a Kindle eBook.

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11-15-2010, 05:42 AM	#2
SamuraiXSendai Addict Posts: 229 Karma: 1234 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Earth Device: Kindle 1. Kindle 2. IPAD. KDXG. Kindle 3.Fire	Here we go again... I would suggest you do a search of the forum.

11-15-2010, 06:10 AM	#3
patrickt Wizard Posts: 1,221 Karma: 8381518 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Device: Paperwhite 4 X 2	It has something to do with number of bytes or bits but I've never cared much so I haven't bothered to remember. It's the digital equivalent of page numbers in printed books. When the reader can manipulate font size, spacing, and other formatting characteristics the concept of "page" is not very useful.

11-15-2010, 08:38 AM	#5
oecherprinte Zealot Posts: 115 Karma: 20 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kindle3 3G, Kindle Paperwhite 2	Thanks for your answers. I am aware of the difference between pages and positions and why such a differentiation is necessary. However, let me rephrase my question: How can I derive the kindle "positions" for a certain chapter starting from the source html? I learnt from the forum that the positions are incremented in 128 byte steps. But how does this translate into the source html code? Can you come up with an equation about how to calculate a position starting from html? Does compression also play a role? Thanks, Jens

11-16-2010, 01:34 PM	#8
Bad Astronaut Member Posts: 20 Karma: 30 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kindle 3	This is a just a guess, but in ASCII text files each character is one byte so you may be able to just add up the characters in the html. Note that you will have to include spaces, newlines, tabs, and other special characters which may not be visible in a text viewer. I would also guess that the calculation is based on the raw, uncompressed html (although mobi/azw containers do use compression) but you would have to test it to be sure.

11-16-2010, 01:42 PM	#9
Bricorn Addict Posts: 289 Karma: 7788748 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Fun Town, Thailand Device: Kindle DXG	If you need to go to a particular chapter and your ebook has no index, just search for "chapter", then pick the one you want.

11-17-2010, 02:53 AM	#10
bitschnau Enthusiast Posts: 31 Karma: 360 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Amazon Kindle 3	If the book is formatted precisly by the publisher, you can skip from chapter to chapter by using the left and right buttons on the 5-way-controller.

11-17-2010, 06:48 PM	#14
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,908 Karma: 27013865 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	The computation of locations reflects HTML structure as well as some notion of 'chunks'. For example <h1>...</h1> or <p>...</p> seem to generate a new location, though there may be very little text between the tags. But larger blocks of text are broken up into 2 or more locations. This also means that two examples that render identically may wind up with different location assignments, because the underlying HTML can be different.

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