Any way to double the line returns in an ePub?

[kelemvor]

I have a couple epub books that don't have a large line return between paragraphs which makes it very hard to read. I prefer when there's a full blank line separating paragraphs. Is there any way I can run this file through something and have it double any line returns it finds so there will be the extra line?

Or are there any readers that I can set in options to show line returns double or anything like that?

Thanks.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by kelemvor

I have a couple epub books that don't have a large line return between paragraphs which makes it very hard to read. I prefer when there's a full blank line separating paragraphs. Is there any way I can run this file through something and have it double any line returns it finds so there will be the extra line?

Or are there any readers that I can set in options to show line returns double or anything like that?

Thanks.

You don't use returns to set gaps between paragraphs.

set margin-top: 2em (about 2 lines high) for the paragraph class in the line below the gap. (foo in this case)

Previous para</p>
<p class-"foo">

IMHO scene breaks should have their own class (for good control)
<p class="scenebreak">* * *</p>

[kelemvor]

This isn't an epub I created, it's one I got from a friend of mine. What program can I use to make the changes? Can I just open it and do a huge find/replace?

[theducks]

Originally Posted by kelemvor

This isn't an epub I created, it's one I got from a friend of mine. What program can I use to make the changes? Can I just open it and do a huge find/replace?

Sigil or calibre-editor (part of Calibre) will do all the unpack and repackage for you. NB both have forums (above) here at MR

No huge S&R 1 (one) edit of the CSS might do it. All depends on the code.

[kelemvor]

OK, I found all the paragraphs with this line between each:
<br class="calibre1"/>

When I checked the css file the calibre1 section didn't have anything in it. I tried adding margin-top:2em but it didn't seem to do anything. I'll keep playing when i have more time.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by kelemvor

OK, I found all the paragraphs with this line between each:
<br class="calibre1"/>

When I checked the css file the calibre1 section didn't have anything in it. I tried adding margin-top:2em but it didn't seem to do anything. I'll keep playing when i have more time.

I thought you wanted to ADD space

I just (today) answered how to do the S&R to remove this. do you have more than 1 thread going?

[theducks]

1) clean up the mess and remove the </p><br... mess
this will give a consistent base to work with.

2) add or increase the margin-top: value for the <p class=

(note: you may have more than 1 class to change. first paragraphs, indented paragraphs are not unusual. you might also have a class for Blockquotes.)

That should now give you a cleaner base to fine tune. I use .5em for my standard top margin on indented paragraph books. I raise it to .85 for block paragraphs
NB I am stingy with space that does not add to readability (with my tired eyes ) OTOH I don't go for the 'stark' look. either

[kelemvor]

It actually looks like nothign is formatted as an actual paragraph. Just linesof text with the <br stuff in the middle which just adds a line break. Maybe if I just replace the <br> tags with <p> tags that will do what I want. hmm

Otherwise I'l have to do a bunch of find/replace to swap the <br strings with regular <p> things and go from there I guess...

[theducks]

Originally Posted by kelemvor

It actually looks like nothign is formatted as an actual paragraph. Just linesof text with the <br stuff in the middle which just adds a line break. Maybe if I just replace the <br> tags with <p> tags that will do what I want. hmm

Otherwise I'l have to do a bunch of find/replace to swap the <br strings with regular <p> things and go from there I guess...

search: <br class="calibre1"/>
replace with: </p> <p class='your-class'>

[Toxaris]

Give the book back to your friend and tell him to learn to create an e-book first. This sounds like a real, unnecessary mess to me.

[odedta]

Originally Posted by kelemvor

It actually looks like nothign is formatted as an actual paragraph. Just linesof text with the <br stuff in the middle which just adds a line break. Maybe if I just replace the <br> tags with <p> tags that will do what I want. hmm

Otherwise I'l have to do a bunch of find/replace to swap the <br strings with regular <p> things and go from there I guess...

This is what Calibre does when converting a not-well-formed word document, you see things like:

<p>lalala<br class="calibre1"/>tatata<br class="calibre1"/>bababa</p>

Instead of dividing the 3 words into 3 paragraphs, I've seen seen happen quite often.

You could try editing CSS class:

.calibre1
{
margin-top:2em;
}

or:

.calibre1
{
line-height:1.5;
}

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by kelemvor

I have a couple epub books that don't have a large line return between paragraphs which makes it very hard to read. I prefer when there's a full blank line separating paragraphs. Is there any way I can run this file through something and have it double any line returns it finds so there will be the extra line?

Or are there any readers that I can set in options to show line returns double or anything like that?

Thanks.

Actually, large paragraph spaces make books hard to read.

Question, before eBooks, printed books didn't have paragraph spaces. So how did you manage to read them if they were so hard to read?

I've never once heard anyone say (or saw anyone write) that paper books need paragraph spaces to make them easier to read. I've heard complains about some books having too small a font size, but never about anyone wanting paragraph spaces.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, large paragraph spaces make books hard to read.

That is your opinion.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Question, before eBooks, printed books didn't have paragraph spaces. So how did you manage to read them if they were so hard to read?

Sure they did. There are multiple different ways to separate paragraphs.

Here is a list of some of them:

https://www.fonts.com/content/learni...aph-formatting

And I just stumbled across a fantastic in-depth answer discussing paragraph spacing:

https://english.stackexchange.com/qu...hen-do-you-not

Also, it seems like lately I have been stressing ebooks for accessibility reasons. Here is one of the Accessibility Style Guides that was linked on Wikipedia (I recommend reading through it):

http://www.aph.org/edresearch/lpguide.htm

APH encourages its writers to:

• Indent 1 inch at margins
• Justify left margin, unjustify right margin
• Use a wide, san-serif font for ample kerning
• Space 1.25 between lines, especially on forms where underscores and boxes are used to provide space for writing
• Double space (30-34 pt) between paragraphs or other bodies of text
• Use block paragraph style, no indents

Or http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/about-...le-guide.html:

Layout.

• Use left-justified with ragged right edge.
• Avoid narrow columns (as used in newspapers).
• Lines should not be too long: 60 to70 characters.
• Avoid cramping material and using long, dense paragraphs: space it out.
• Line spacing of 1.5 is preferable.
• Avoid starting a sentence at the end of a line.
• Use bullet points and numbering rather than continuous prose.

Now, while a lot of these Style Guides you find are aimed towards PRINT, there is no reason you can't commandeer some of the ideas and use them in ebooks as well.

Side Note: You may also want to look around for Web Design Style Guides (aimed towards accessibility). Those might also have many good ideas to bring over into ebooks.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've never once heard anyone say (or saw anyone write) that paper books need paragraph spaces to make them easier to read. I've heard complains about some books having too small a font size, but never about anyone wanting paragraph spaces.

I would recommend looking up a lot of the accessibility articles, and accessibility typography. And just because YOU don't prefer it that way, doesn't mean others can't prefer/need it differently. And this is one of the fantastic thing about ebooks, is that you CAN easily change this with the push of a few buttons on your device (IF the book is coded properly, and not mangled with hard returns).

[JSWolf]

I have never heard (or read of) anyone complaining that a pBook needs paragraph spaces. A pBook (most of the time) uses indents instead of paragraph spaces.

A lot of those layout suggestions make for a lousy read as the formatting will then get in the way of the book. You want formatting that isn't obvious when you are reading.

But these people who do prefer to mangle the formatting of their eBooks, did they ever complain about pBooks needing all this excess space?


1.5em between lines with a 1.25em paragraph space is going to interfere with reading. You'll be focused on the poorly formatted book more so then the words. I have seen a number of eBooks these days formatted with a .3em line space and a 1.2em indent. personally, I'd remove the .3em paragraph space, but even so, .3em is not unreadable. The eye doesn't stop on a blank line because it's not a full blank line.

Using a sans-serif font is not all that wonderful for the body text. Sans-serif should be used for headers/titles/highlighting/offsetting text but not for the body text.

I will defend people's right to hypocritically mangle their eBooks if they want just as it's my right to point out how wrong it is.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have never heard (or read of) anyone complaining that a pBook needs paragraph spaces. A pBook (most of the time) uses indents instead of paragraph spaces.

Well now you can say you HAVE READ it, because I linked you to multiple sources which state paragraph spacing is a perfectly valid style of typography.

Feel free to read lots of typography books/sources as well.

Hitch recommended this book to me, "The Elements of Typographic Style" by Robert Bringhurst. It is highly regarded in the typography world as one of the top "must have" books.

In typography, you typically settle on a text indent OR paragraph spacing, you don't really mix both because that would be "redundant" (although you could). (Bringhurst explained the idea/history behind it way better than I ever could).

The Style Guides that I linked to on APH + British Dyslexia Association were dedicated towards certain reading accessibility issues (APH publishes many books for the reading impaired (Large Print Editions, etc. etc.), the British Dyslexia Association is dedicated towards readers with Dyslexia).

I assume they did all of their research and found that THOSE layouts (larger line-height, space between paragraphs, left aligned, etc. etc.) are MORE READABLE for their market. Perhaps these styles are not to YOUR specific liking, and perhaps not as BEAUTIFUL as a normal book... but more READABLE.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But these people who do prefer to mangle the formatting of their eBooks, did they ever complain about pBooks needing all this excess space?

I would talk to the people who purchase Large Print Editions, alternative printings, etc. etc. Feel free to go read up on DAISY's website + a lot of the other Web Design/Accessibility stuff + contacting/reading a lot of the information on these alternate publishers' sites.

And if you can't find anyone else complaining about the layout of physical books, then I can step up and be your first example (now you can say you have HEARD OF it as well). Nice to meet you!

Originally Posted by JSWolf

1.5em between lines with a 1.25em paragraph space is going to interfere with reading. You'll be focused on the poorly formatted book more so then the words. I have seen a number of eBooks these days formatted with a .3em line space and a 1.2em indent. personally, I'd remove the .3em paragraph space, but even so, .3em is not unreadable.

For example, here is a journal I am currently working on digitizing.

Here is a snapshot from the original PDF:



(My personal preference/what I use)

p {
	margin-top: 0;
	margin-bottom: 0;
	line-height: 1.2em;
	text-align: justify;
	text-indent: 2em;
}

p {
	margin-top: .3em;
	margin-bottom: 0;
	line-height: 1.2em;
	text-align: justify;
	text-indent: 1.2em;
}

p {
	margin-top: 1em;
	margin-bottom: 0;
	line-height: 1.5em;
	text-align: justify;
	text-indent: 0;
}

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I will defend people's right to hypocritically mangle their eBooks if they want just as it's my right to point out how wrong it is.

But it is not necessarily MANGLED/WRONG, just DIFFERENT. "JSWolf's Design" is not the only way to do design on the block.

Some CSS errors are MUCH more egregious than others (forcing font sizes in px, forcing black text, etc. etc.). But having differing line-heights, text-indents, and paragraph spacing is not bad at all.

I would place it extremely low on my "must be destroyed" list. (#1 for me is probably the death of JPG (for artificial images)).