[LCF]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Could they if they really wanted to or do you like have laws curbing police powers?

What I mean is can they stop anyone at any time and demand the passport for no reason. Could they set up checkpoints on every street corner and log the ID of any person passing?

Yepp, the can. Not only in Germany btw. But they don't demand a passport, they demand the ID-card, which is no more bother to carry than your credit card. Sometimes the driving licence can do the trick, cause it has similar protections, but the police could demand ID and take you on in until you can prove who you are.

You see the Arizona law talks about lawful encounters which is pretty much every encounter. If a policeman says hell to you as you pass by you had a lawful encounter and therefore the policeman or woman would have had the right to check your immigration status. That's rahter intimidating.

This is very difficult question. I've never been bothered from the police. I've been stopped with my aunt's car at 3 a.m. and no car registration papers (at least I had my driving license with me), but even then there were no major problems. I had to actually drive back and come with the papers. Police officers were happy

I'll give an example. A few weeks ago I was out rather late checking dumpsters behind an electronics store for a large cardboard box I wanted for a project. On my way home empty handed on a public street I was stopped. A policeman drove up to me and told me to stop. Then he asked my name which I was legally required to give but i wasn't legally required to have ID so I didn't offer to show mine. At that point I was not free to go. He asked me a few questions mainly had I seen anyone or anything unusual and then he let me go.

I did feel slightly threatened by the stop but the policeman did try to be friendly and I tried not to show I was upset. Walking a public street, breaking no laws and quite honestly he was probably making sure I wasn't in any trouble out there all alone but what if things had been slightly different?

Suppose the policeman had been having a bad day or I had. What if i had shown anger at being stopped or fear of the man with the gun and handcuffs stopping me? What if I had dark skin? What if it had been Arizona and he demanded proof I was a US citizen or else face an arrest?

I don't think that being rude to a police officer is a good idea anywhere in the world.

This was civil and turned out fine but this new law is ready made for abuse. In what some in this thread consider my naivety I feel that people should be able to go about their buisness in public without law enforcement bothering them. I think they should need a legitimate reason and not be given a ready made excuse to just stop anyone. I think when you face a badge and a gun you see the power of the state staring you down. Someone doing nothing but moving form point A to point B shouldn't have to deal with that.

I can't be sure from your short reply. Do the laws in Germany allow this?

Again, AFAIK they do. But the police is not actually there to annoy you or pick up on you. If the fear is, that Arizonan police officers will overstep their rights - the problem is not in the law, but in the police forces.