[Iphinome]

Mods, before you flay me remember you didn't say one word when I was personally attacked.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

we'll try pink, bold even in case the visuals aren't getting through to you. that wasn't a personal attack. that was a statement. too many people run about with this sense of entitlement infringing on everyone elses rights. your attitude embodies that manifestation by everything you post here.

Well this is a statement... Too many people have narrow minded views. They see things and they react and they never take the time to think through what they're defending. Without any understanding of slippery slopes these dregs of humanity blindly accept the word of any authority figure blind to any potential for abuse because they feel it'll never be used against them.

Basically cowards these people will not only sell out their own interests but gladly restrict the liberties of others not for safety, not for king and country, not for family but for the short term appearance of doing something. Wishing for daddy to hold and hug them and tell them everything's okay while the sky is falling these people lash out against anyone who dares to say that the emperor has no clothes.

While cowering in a corner crying out don't hurt me. These scumbags demand oppressive measures against everyone else. They're the hawks who shout out for wars. They're the hypocrites who call out for the government to provide tanks, armies, police, prisons, executions and in turn cry about their tax burden and refer to any attempt to provide real protection of life like heath care as communism.

When these vile pissant pimples on the arse of society speak it is always about other people being a problem and how they should happy accept any restriction on themselves so long as it makes said pissant happy. Therein lies the rub for like every petty tyrant in history they are never happy. Much like the puritans of old who could not quite get over the idea that someone somewhere might be having fun, these inbred trolls object to the idea that someone somewhere might be unmonitored. They have nothing on the party in Orwell's 1984.

In the end of course as cowards hypocrites and fools when the abuses they advocate come back to bite them on the ass these are persons who cry the loudest. These laws were meant for other people, the bad ones who don't agree with me is their cry. Censor only that which I don't approve of! Detain only the brown people! If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about but stay out of my private life! Keep your government hands off my medicare! Me! Me! Me! Sure, everyone will be tracked, their movements recorded. Sure anyone who dresses funny or has a different skin color will be stopped by every passing policeman. Sure political opponents will never be able to move without being followed. Sure people will be caught in dragnets for the most minor of infractions but it'll never touch me and I'll feel ever so warm and cozy not like in a free society where there's a chance someone might do something I don't like or even worse look different form me. Why won't you conform and be a good little mindless tool like I am! Bleet! Bleet! Bleet!

Anyone who values liberty or even diversity sees these petulant children as dangerous of course but the sad fact is the mindless always seem to outnumber the thinking people.

Kindlekitten your attitude embodies that manifestation by everything you post here.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I agree. except regarding prisoners. if you have been convicted of a crime I do not believe that your jail time should be cushy. and yeah, I've seen how Maricopa county deals. looks a lot like basic training. and I went there voluntarily

In boot camp sufficient nutrition and medical care are made available. The ability to make phone calls home is not so restricted. Jail need not be summer camp but when you consider that jail and prison are not the same thing and when you consider the complaints that have been lodged over the years I'm forced to conclude that the prisoners are not being humanly treated.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

negative laws come about because too many people abuse the system. if you want to buy alcohol, you have to show ID. if you want to buy cold meds that contain whatever goes into meth you have to show id, AND they are locked up behind the counter. as a farm owner when I buy a gallon of iodine (that is farm size) I have to show ID AND sign a form. why is this? because CRIMINALS abused the system. there have been too many criminal illegal aliens that abused the system. so yeah, one bad apple DOES spoil the whole barrel.

Ain't liberty a bitch? People might do bad things. However an age requirement for alcohol doesn't affect anyone not in the process of purchasing it. A license for the privilege to drive on public roads does not affect the right to walk on public sidewalks. If you want to show your ID to anyone who asks go ahead. Who I am or where I'm going is really no one's buisness unless I choose otherwise, you don't get to choose for me.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

because I want to live

Then go cower in your basement and hope there's no fire or meteor. As long as you are breathing you're going to be taking the risk that you'll stop doing so. Certainty one day you will stop. Showing ID won't change that. You might be hit by a truck today. You might be mugged. A farm girl from Kansas might drop a house on you. Shit happens get used to it.

Spend forever worried that something might kill you today or relax go to 7-11 and pick up some milk. The choice is yours. Aren't choices nice?

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

the posession of legal ID is NOT intimidation. intimidation is being stopped at road blocks with klieg lights shining on your car and sub-machine guns pointed in your window. welcome to Germany and Mexico. never had that happen here, but been through it in both places numerous times

What's the difference? You're stopped there's the threat of force and a demand made of you for no other reason than you happened to be passing by and the state decided to turn its attention to you. Is the threat of a submachine gun worse than the threat from a handgun? Both carry the power of the state, both make a demand. Both have unfortunate consequences if you don't carry and give them what they want on demand. I rather not the US become a place where this happens. You've yet to explain why a police offcer stopping anyone and demanding ID is different from or won't lead to checkpoints and automatic weapons. Allow one and why not the other? I mean all you have to do is carry ID right?

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

you should know and understand the topic before parroting it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. this refers more to intellectual property ie; writings, than anything else. this was due to vast criticism of the king, and these writings could be actionable upon the author. this had nothing to do with producing an identification paper. that leads to PROBABLE CAUSE. in this case if a person of authority asks for identification to be produced because there is a suspicion of illegal access, whether that be to a government building, a strip club, a university, or the United States, the refusal to produce such paperwork engenders probable cause for the person in the position of authority to restrain the freedoms of the person making the refusal

Are you thick? the 4'th amendment has nothing to do with so-called intellectual property. Papers means just that. Bookkeeping records. Deeds. Birth certificates. Diaries. Whatever records you happened to have. Your personal data to be as sacred as your person. Not the protection of writing means for publication it's absurd to think something intended to be public would be listed under protection for private spaces. To search your house, your things, your paperwork or your person requires probable cause. The while idea of papers please comrade violates this.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

that's not germane to this conversation

I have not brought that up anywhere and it has nothing to do with this issue

Then why did you reply about it? Someone else brought it up, I answered. you jumped in. If you consider the whole thing off topic stop replying to it.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I supplied my birth certificate to get my passport. I carry my passport at all times. bringing privacy issues such as the bathroom into the conversation is absolutely ridiculous

Let's see that posted scan then, and of your passport. Come on comrade nothing to hide after all. People should be forced to show ID after all. Let's see some.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

once again, carrying ID is not that onerous. but, at the end of the day, it is YOUR right whether or not to carry it. if your lack of carry ends you up incarcerated, that is your right as well. it is NOT your right to threaten my personal safety by refusing to identify yourself

Oh how cute. You feel so threatened by not knowing my name and address. You must be terrified when walking on a public street. All those people not showing you their identification why they might hurt you. Better check out the window and see if there are any nearby who knows what they might do? Or of course you could know their names and they could just kill you so you don't identify them later. You should probably know this by now but you're not safe. No one is. Planes crash. Cars crash. Extremest nut-jobs blow things up. People get cancer and they fall down stairs and they choke on food. There are earthquakes volcano floods blizzards hurricanes. The universe is trying to kill you and one day it will succeed. Making me carry identification won't change that it'll just bring us all one step closer to a police state. While you're waiting for the universe to get you what do you prefer liberty or oppression?

If you think there's an immigration problem find some other way to solve it. The Arizona way is a load of fascist bullshit, much like your arguments.